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Forum topic by squaredwobble posted 01-03-2017 11:35 PM 515 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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squaredwobble

24 posts in 157 days


01-03-2017 11:35 PM

Topic tags/keywords: 221140 g0715p kickback

Hi everyone,

Happy New Year! Well, I need help deciding what to do. I’ve had a Dewalt 7480 for a few years now and I love it. Wanting something bigger, I bought a used Craftsman 221140 for about $200 on CL about a year ago. The saw runs great, but the stock fence leaves more to be desired and there is also a hump in the middle of the table. I didn’t notice the hump at first, but when I put a flat bar on the table, I found it teetering ever so slightly. The hump is right in front of the blade. It is also missing the splitter and guard. Minus those things, I still like the saw.

Well, the decision I need help making is, should I keep the Craftsman or spring for something new like a Grizzly G0715P? If I buy a new fence (Delta T3 ~$200), a replacement table (~$230), and a BORK (Bolt on Riving Knife ~$210), the total price would be about ~$640. If I also sell the Craftsman for at least what I paid, that would be ~$840. The G0715P is $984, so not much difference, but it would have a good fence, flat table (hopefully), and the safety features of a riving knife/pawls/blade guard.

I’ve been wrestling with this dilemma for a while now, but I had a kickback incident occur yesterday while trying to cut a 1×6 board in half to 1×3 for a chair I’m making. The board was 2 feet long and I took every precaution I could think of. I’m deathly afraid of kickback. I even had a DIY steel splitter installed. The incident occurred when the front of the board cleared the blade but had yet made it to the splitter. Since the board was short, the blade was just above the board, which left a lot of space between the blade and the splitter. I guess after the cut was made, the off-cut curled enough to catch the blade. Luckily, I was using push stick and was able to push the board back down into the blade through the cut. So, it wasn’t as bad as some of the videos on utube, but I did have to change my underwear after that.

In the meantime, I’ll be using my 7480 until I figure out what to do. Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

-- True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost - Arthur Ashe


21 replies so far

View Tim Dahn's profile

Tim Dahn

1538 posts in 3104 days


#1 posted 01-03-2017 11:49 PM

Regarding the Craftsman saw, if you are weary/hesitant when using it the don’t! The hump in the table top could be contributing to the kickback. I’m probably not a good source for what to buy as I use a 1950’s Craftsman 8” saw. Also I have resorted to ripping small stuff on the band saw and clean up with a hand plane.

-- Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4703 posts in 1738 days


#2 posted 01-03-2017 11:57 PM

Keep an eye out for another CL deal with a better fence. You have been using your existing saw for a year, so a little longer shouldn’t be a problem. You can then sell your existing saw to recover some or all of the money. I see those contractor saws frequently with mobile bases, biesemeyer fences, router table extensions and other stuff for about the price you paid for yours, or just slightly more – usually no more than $300-$350 at most. Who knows, you might even stumble on a cabinet saw for that amount of cash.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7419 posts in 2915 days


#3 posted 01-04-2017 12:00 AM

The 22114 worth putting a T3 fence on, but I wouldn’t sink much more into it. It’s probably not worth fixing the hump, let alone buying a $230 table over. At most, I’d consider taking some sand paper to it at the highest spot. I’ve been really happy with my BORK and guard on my Shop Fox W1677, but I’d be hardpressed to sink another $210 into that saw. Have you considered just the BORK and not the guard?

With that said, I’d rather pursue another saw before I put much over a couple hundred more into the 22114…it’s worth $400-$500 max in new condition even with a fence upgrade, and a splitter of some sort. The G0715P seems to be well liked these days, but I’d also consider the new G0771Z if price is a concern. I’d also be looking to see what else CL had available….the right deal on a used cabinet saw might be worth putting a BORK on. Do you have 220v?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View squaredwobble's profile

squaredwobble

24 posts in 157 days


#4 posted 01-04-2017 12:01 AM


Regarding the Craftsman saw, if you are weary/hesitant when using it the don t! The hump in the table top could be contributing to the kickback. I m probably not a good source for what to buy as I use a 1950 s Craftsman 8” saw. Also I have resorted to ripping small stuff on the band saw and clean up with a hand plane.

- Tim Dahn

Thanks Tim. I didn’t even think about the hump being a contributing factor. I’m definitely refraining from using the Craftsman. Even my wife said to not use it anymore and do what I need to do.

-- True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost - Arthur Ashe

View Tim Dahn's profile

Tim Dahn

1538 posts in 3104 days


#5 posted 01-04-2017 12:34 AM

WELL! If you got the OK from the wife then that changes everything :)

-- Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement.

View OSB's profile

OSB

142 posts in 65 days


#6 posted 01-04-2017 01:15 AM

How close is your blade parallel to the miter slots, how close is your fence parallel to the miter slots? Does your blade have minimal run-out?

If those things are dialed in, I have never had trouble with a cut like that except when I was the problem.

View squaredwobble's profile

squaredwobble

24 posts in 157 days


#7 posted 01-04-2017 01:46 AM



Keep an eye out for another CL deal with a better fence. You have been using your existing saw for a year, so a little longer shouldn t be a problem. You can then sell your existing saw to recover some or all of the money. I see those contractor saws frequently with mobile bases, biesemeyer fences, router table extensions and other stuff for about the price you paid for yours, or just slightly more – usually no more than $300-$350 at most. Who knows, you might even stumble on a cabinet saw for that amount of cash.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Thanks Brad. I’m an avid CL watcher and always keeping an eye out for another golden find. Even for tools I don’t think I need, like another drill press, jointer, etc. You never know what you’ll find. It’s a good season to watch for stuff too, it being after Christmas and all. Some lucky chap has got something new and needs to sell whatever it’s replacing.

-- True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost - Arthur Ashe

View squaredwobble's profile

squaredwobble

24 posts in 157 days


#8 posted 01-04-2017 02:12 AM



The 22114 worth putting a T3 fence on, but I wouldn t sink much more into it. It s probably not worth fixing the hump, let alone buying a $230 table over. At most, I d consider taking some sand paper to it at the highest spot. I ve been really happy with my BORK and guard on my Shop Fox W1677, but I d be hardpressed to sink another $210 into that saw. Have you considered just the BORK and not the guard?

With that said, I d rather pursue another saw before I put much over a couple hundred more into the 22114…it s worth $400-$500 max in new condition even with a fence upgrade, and a splitter of some sort. The G0715P seems to be well liked these days, but I d also consider the new G0771Z if price is a concern. I d also be looking to see what else CL had available….the right deal on a used cabinet saw might be worth putting a BORK on. Do you have 220v?

- knotscott

Thanks Scott. I think I could live without a new fence, but it’s just so cumbersome working with the stock fence. It’s not impossible, just cumbersome. A First World problem I guess. As far as the table goes, from the left side of the insert, the table seems to drop down. 16 inches out to the left end of the tabletop, the table drops down 1/8”. I don’t think that it affects smaller cuts much, but I’m concerned about larger cuts, like breaking down plywood. As far as 220v, I recently moved into the house and plan on upgrading the electrical, to also include 220v. I’m actually supposed to be calling around this week for quotes from electricians. So hopefully, this month I’ll have 220v in the garage and a panel ready for a dedicated workshop in the back in the near future (hopefully). For the BORK and not the guard, I liked the idea of DC at the blade, but I guess that’s another First World problem.

-- True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost - Arthur Ashe

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

304 posts in 131 days


#9 posted 01-04-2017 06:46 AM

I suspect that bork creates more problem than it solves. It is nowhere rigid enough to be used ouside of youtube. Now one thing is a flying piece of wood and completely another flying piece of metal.

View squaredwobble's profile

squaredwobble

24 posts in 157 days


#10 posted 01-04-2017 08:07 AM


How close is your blade parallel to the miter slots, how close is your fence parallel to the miter slots? Does your blade have minimal run-out?

If those things are dialed in, I have never had trouble with a cut like that except when I was the problem.

- OSB

OSB, the blade and miter slot are pretty parallel and my runout is sitting at 0.003-ish. That’s one reason why I like the 221140, cabinet mounted trunnion for easy alignment. As for the fence and the right side miter slot, from the front of the table to the back of the table, I’m at 0.005 – 0.008. It deflects as you push on it hard. I was using my fence when the kickback occurred, so maybe my fence deflected enough to cause the kickback.

-- True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost - Arthur Ashe

View squaredwobble's profile

squaredwobble

24 posts in 157 days


#11 posted 01-04-2017 10:15 AM



WELL! If you got the OK from the wife then that changes everything :)

- Tim Dahn

I was discussing the issues with the saw with the wife again and she brought up a good point. Instead of trying to make this saw the way I want it, why not just get a new saw that’s already the way I want it and I wouldn’t have to worry about the motor or any other part failing due to the age of the saw. I know it’s a pretty heafty saw and the probability of any other part failing is slim, minus the motor going out. I also know that new doesn’t always mean better. I could also end up with a whole new set of problems.

-- True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost - Arthur Ashe

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7419 posts in 2915 days


#12 posted 01-04-2017 10:27 AM


I suspect that bork creates more problem than it solves. It is nowhere rigid enough to be used ouside of youtube. Now one thing is a flying piece of wood and completely another flying piece of metal.

- Carloz

I’m not sure what you’ve read or experienced with the BORK to prompt that statement, but the BORK went through several design upgrades a few years ago. I’ve used just about every version that was made available since it was introduced. It’s now made of stainless steel, comes with a calibration gauge to ensure good setup, and is made so that it can’t contact the blade. I’m not suggesting he sink over $400 into his current saw, but the BORK works and works well once setup properly.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7309 posts in 2453 days


#13 posted 01-04-2017 11:53 AM



I was discussing the issues with the saw with the wife again and she brought up a good point. Instead of trying to make this saw the way I want it, why not just get a new saw that s already the way I want it and I wouldn t have to worry about the motor or any other part failing due to the age of the saw…
- squaredwobble

This is solely my opinion, but noticed two things about your situation:
  • You are now looking at buying your THIRD tablesaw
  • You are still restricting yourself to the cheapest product of your chosen brand (Grizzly)

Sure, the above would technically be a step up for you, but not much of one IMO. If I were you, I would be looking AT LEAST at either the # G1023RLW ($1,584.00 delivered) or the # G0690 ($1,734.00 delivered).

I am NOT wishing for you to go broke, just trying to help you to not need to replace your tablesaw again, in a few years. IMO, bite the bullet and buy yourself a lifetime tablesaw now. After all your first TWO have already nickel-dimed you with added costs and/or poor performance from what it appears.

NOTE: We are NOT talking about $3,000—$4,000 saws here, just not bottom-feeding, where problems seem to pop up more frequently. Again, this is only my opinion…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

304 posts in 131 days


#14 posted 01-04-2017 04:20 PM


I suspect that bork creates more problem than it solves. It is nowhere rigid enough to be used ouside of youtube. Now one thing is a flying piece of wood and completely another flying piece of metal.
- Carloz
I m not sure what you ve read or experienced with the BORK to prompt that statement
- knotscott

I do not remember but a quick google search point back to lj: Scary stuff.
But my post was not based on that specific one. I quick glance at the bork design showed it should not be used. I did not try to check the latest updates.

Update: I actually read a few posts from that thread and see that the bork inventor always blames the customers for improperly using it.
Update 2: I see that knotscott was part of that conversation ;-)

View Jason Lester's profile

Jason Lester

27 posts in 76 days


#15 posted 01-04-2017 08:09 PM


WELL! If you got the OK from the wife then that changes everything :)

- Tim Dahn

I was discussing the issues with the saw with the wife again and she brought up a good point. Instead of trying to make this saw the way I want it, why not just get a new saw that s already the way I want it and I wouldn t have to worry about the motor or any other part failing due to the age of the saw. I know it s a pretty heafty saw and the probability of any other part failing is slim, minus the motor going out. I also know that new doesn t always mean better. I could also end up with a whole new set of problems.

- squaredwobble

Sounds like you have the green light for a good saw they way you want it….Congrats….LOL

-- Jason

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