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Forum topic by Vicki posted 08-16-2010 06:43 AM 2611 views 2 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Vicki

938 posts in 2002 days


08-16-2010 06:43 AM

Topic tags/keywords: pine question finishing

I finally made the move from ‘box store’ wood to REAL lumber yard wood. I still only used pine for this project, but the quality was much better. I made a little cabinet for my bathroom (I’ll send a pic when the door is on). I stained it with my usual Minwax Oak. Seems to me it’s a bit blotchy. I bought the select white pine, which was supposed to be the best. Never had a problem with blotches with pine from the home center. I built the door last and I’ve put on pre-conditioner to see if that helps. Other than the frame around the raised panel, it’s all from the same board. I’ll check tomorrow and see if that made a difference. Has anyone else experienced good stain results with box store wood and blotching with lumber yard wood?
Vicki

-- Vicki on the Eastern Shore of MD


20 replies so far

View Bob #2's profile

Bob #2

3808 posts in 2679 days


#1 posted 08-16-2010 05:52 PM

Charles Neil has a blotch control that works really good.
just search on this site for blotch control and you can get in touch with him.

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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Jonathan

2605 posts in 1708 days


#2 posted 08-17-2010 02:44 AM

Here’s the link to the CN Blotch Control: http://shop.charlesneilwoodworking.com/Charles-Neils-Pre-Color-Conditioner--Blotch-Control_p_47.html

From everything I’ve heard and read, it’s really good stuff. I have 2-quarts of it waiting to go on a future project where I’ll be using riftsawn white oak plywood, combined with riftsawn white oak. I want to make sure they match when I stain them, so they’ll be getting a coat or two of the CN Blotch Control as the conditioner.

There are reviews of the product on here too, as well as a video of Charles demonstrating the product.

Pine tends to be a bit blotchy anyway from what I’ve seen, no matter where it comes from, so you might want to try the CN product. I know I’m anxious to use it!

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

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Jim Finn

1678 posts in 1579 days


#3 posted 08-18-2010 02:13 AM

I use a milk thick mixture of wall board joint compound and water. Sand well after dry and apply stain. Works well for me on fir and pine.

-- In God We Trust

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Jim Crockett (USN Retired)

852 posts in 2391 days


#4 posted 08-18-2010 02:46 AM

I am currently working on a bookrack that I just stained with TransTint dye over Charles Neil’s Blotch Control. The wood is hard maple and when I did a sample piece without the Blotch Control, it showed considerable blotching. After using CN’s Blotch Control on the actual project, there was no sign of blotching at all! I’m sold and will be using it from here on for all blotchy woods – maple, cherry, pine, etc. It looks a little strange going on as it is a milk white but it surely does what it is designed to do.

Jim

-- A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including his/her life".

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

3794 posts in 2320 days


#5 posted 08-18-2010 04:51 AM

Here’s another shout-out for Charles Neil’s Blotch Control … used it on a cupboard I built for my wife’s sewing room ( http://lumberjocks.com/projects/35191 ), and the results were great.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Vicki's profile

Vicki

938 posts in 2002 days


#6 posted 08-18-2010 06:05 AM

Thank you everyone for the tips and responses. I watch Chas on youtube, so I know what you’re talking about. Does it need to be sanded after applying like Jim F’s mix? I don’t have a dedicated finishing room so don’t want to add extra time to the process.

-- Vicki on the Eastern Shore of MD

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TheDane

3794 posts in 2320 days


#7 posted 08-18-2010 02:03 PM

Yes … with Charles Neil’s Blotch Control you need to ‘scuff’ it with 220 or finer grit. His formula is water-based, so it will raise the grain a bit. We’re not talking about a lot of sanding … just a light scuff to knock down the grain.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

1678 posts in 1579 days


#8 posted 08-18-2010 02:17 PM

...... Does it need to be sanded after applying like Jim F’s mix?...... Yes and it is dusty!

-- In God We Trust

View Bob #2's profile

Bob #2

3808 posts in 2679 days


#9 posted 08-18-2010 02:25 PM

I like to take the nub off with one of those 3M abrasive pads.
All water based materials will raise the grain a bit.

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

View Vicki's profile

Vicki

938 posts in 2002 days


#10 posted 08-18-2010 05:08 PM

Thanks guys, you’re a big help.

-- Vicki on the Eastern Shore of MD

View NathanAllen's profile

NathanAllen

376 posts in 1802 days


#11 posted 08-18-2010 05:29 PM

Another option is to make your own pre-stain conditioner with 1lb cut shellac, since it isn’t water based you won’t have to raise then knock down the grain.

To fix any issues with your current project consider applying a shellac then a tinted glaze layer above to cover up some of the blotching and provide a depth coat.

Depending on where you’re located you may be buying SYP from the Big Box, it takes stain easier which is why you’re having a difficult comparrison with the White Pine.

View Vicki's profile

Vicki

938 posts in 2002 days


#12 posted 08-18-2010 07:17 PM

Hey Nathan. Thanks for the great tip and feedback. Do the box stores sell glazes? I know nothing about them. Can I just brush it on? Will shellac go over oil based poly?

-- Vicki on the Eastern Shore of MD

View spclPatrolGroup's profile

spclPatrolGroup

223 posts in 1552 days


#13 posted 08-18-2010 08:18 PM

+1 for the 1lb cut of shellac, its all I use for conditioner anymore.

-- Dave, from ND "The mind is an infinitely long workbench, and its cluttered with half-finished thoughts and ideas, sometimes we need to clear off the workbench and start again from step one."

View hObOmOnk's profile

hObOmOnk

1381 posts in 2785 days


#14 posted 08-18-2010 09:26 PM

+2 for shellac attack.

-- 温故知新

View NathanAllen's profile

NathanAllen

376 posts in 1802 days


#15 posted 08-19-2010 09:27 PM

The Dewaxed Shellac is compatable with almost everything, regular waxed (Amber) and poly are a little less compatable.

Normally Shellac is used as either a base or a barrier beween two otherwise incompatable layers of finish. It’s the bacon of the finishing world; it goes with everything.

The big issue with poly is that it is notably incompatable with other finishes. This is not to dismiss poly, it is very durable, but once it’s settled there’s not much you can do to fix it.

For availability, General Finishes makes a Glaze that is fairly easy to apply, you can pick it up at Rockler or Woodcraft. If you don’t have one nearby you can always order online, in fact Woodcraft is having a free shipping over $25 promotion right now. GF is a great entry level brush on “exotic” finish manufacturer, Milk Paints, Oil & Urethene, Pre-mixed water based stains, etc. Great stuff and it’s made in the Midwest.

http://www.generalfinishes.com/retail-products/water-base-milk-paints-glazes/glaze-effects

Another idea since I’ve been thinking about finishes lately (working through a pile of walnut over the last and next couple years so finishes without coloring) is to use 2lb Shellac with an oil based dye; TransTint is my favorite since it is availble in small quantities. This would let you skip the glaze, but you’d want to use dye and layers (shellac is reactive so each layer melts into the next) to obscure the blotching but leave some impression of grain below.

After the glaze or shellac (depending on how many steps you want to go through) you can re-coat with poly or laquer to provide a moisture proof topcoat.

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