The Best Bandsaw Advice EVER!

The really ironic thing is that if my bandsaw was working, I could probably build “Not Just Any Box,” enter the competition, and have a shot at winning a new Steel City bandsaw (which I could really use right now.)

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

The only thing I can think of is blade tensioning. I would think that if something were screwed up as far as being true or aligned that it would be consistant.

The only dynamic thing is the blade cut itself. If the tension were too light the blade could twist and cut both ways like you describe.

Try slowing down your cut, use soft wood, and then re-tension the blade in that order and see if you can narrow it down.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I’m pretty sure that an older hand than myself will have the answer, but just to give you a pat <pat>, I thought I’d give it a go. I would replace the belt with a link belt. The bowing in the cut seems likely to be a tension issue. Can you crank it up anymore? What sort of resaw blade are you using? I’ve heard the Timber Wolf line is better than some others at tracking without going nuts on the blade tension issue.

There may also be some things you can do to balance the wheels. If I recall from reading Lonnie Bird’s book you can do some things to check and correct balance. Another thought, are the tires original issue?

Okay where’s Dick Cain, Karson and the old hands with the real answer.

Again, my most sincere <pat>. Most of my machines and I maintain a love-hate relationship.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Blake; I’m not trying to be a( smarter than u) kind of guy but have you ever changed the tires. I have a bandsaw that looks just like yours and I started it one day before I put the sides back on and the tires literily raised off the wheel. I changed tires. the blades ride much better with new tires.

-- grumpa,Michigan

Looking at the picture of your fence, it looks like it’s pretty tall. How much above the workpiece is the top guides for the cut you’re trying to make?

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

Wow, already some good things I hadn’t thought of yet! (In only ten minutes… I love this place.) Please keep it coming!!! Thanks.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

who lives nearby? Go use their bandsaw; build that box; win the contest; and get that new bandsaw into your shop! :)
I can’t help you with any of the technical stuff, but I’m thinkin’ about you.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Carter makes a tire out of some kind of poly stuff that is supposed to be really good. I also bought their bearing kit and it really helped for resawing.

-- Maplewood, MN

I have a brand new 9” ryobi band saw, nothing special, just for cutting small things, and I’ve tuned this thing 10 times and it does the same thing you’re describing. I can’t cut a straight line in 1/4” pine with the upper guides right on top of the stock. If I try to cut anything thicker, forget it. The blade ends up snaking its way through the board and stops! I’m thinking the blade itself is screwy. I hear the weld every time it goes by. Any thoughts?????

-- Tony, Ohio

Tony – Throw it away like I did mine and get a good 14”

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Definitely the tension…. (maybe)

On preview, like grumpa said the tires could be messing it up for you by changing the tension of the blade as they spin due to uneven wear…

Can you see any vibration in the wheels when the saw is running?

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

Ok, tension is what I thought. But more or less? I’m not sure if I can get enough tension out of my blade on this saw.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

More. Gotta stop that blade from stretching/bouncing around.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

Tony hearing the weld is normal, try a wider blade and up the tension.

-- I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso

Blake,

Unfortunately, just because your bandsaw says Rockwell on it doesn’t mean it’s that old. My Delta/Rockwell bandsaw was made in August of 1981 and unfortunately that was not a very good decade for the Rockwell bandsaw. The quality was not nearly as high as bandsaws made in the 60’s and 70’s.

You might want to check out the Old Woodworking Machines. Create a login ID, start doing some reading on any of the forum entries for 14” bandsaws.

Here is a topic I made re: my 15” Rockwell drill press and my 14” Rockwell bandsaw and some of the things I had to go through and fix to remove the major vibrations from mine.

Ethan's Rockwell Bandsaw Forum Entry=

I also have a catalog from a company in the southeast (Georgia?) who specifically makes replacement and upgrade parts for bandsaws. I’ll try to dig that catalog up and get you the contact information. It took them a few weeks to get it to me, but it has a ton of information in it and you can order a replacement part for any part of your bandsaw.

I have yet to do it, but I plan on replacing my two pulleys next and then I’d like to set myself up with some new guide blocks. I found a half destroyed carver’s mallet on eBay a few months ago for real cheap. A big part of the mallet head had split off – I really just wanted it for the lignum vitae so I could cut it up and make guide blocks.

As soon as I started getting ready for that, I found out the guide blocks currently set up were round… great. So in addition to the new pulleys, I’ll probably order a new guide block setup, as well.

Anyway, hope that helps.

-- Ethan, http://www.merganserwoodworks.com, http://greystonegreen.blogspot.com/

Blake,

As far as the tension goes, a friend of mine had to replace the tension spring. If I remember right he went with the Carter replacement spring.

-- Chris

Maybe a silly question Blake, but have you checked the wheels bearings?

-- Andy Stark

OK Blake: all of these are great ideas. But.

How many different blades have you tried?
What size blade are you using? Width?
Are you still working on the same blade?
Is the tire in good shape? it seems that someone said that their tire was lifting off the wheel.
You say the cut is different directions but is it really cutting a cup on one side. A cup would be the blade goes in on the line and comes out somewhere on the line Lets say 1/2” from the fence but the wood is only 3/8” in the middle pf the board. The blade guides would be holding the blade (top and bottom) to the center of the board.

Needless to say I’m not having the problem that you refer to but I have in the past.
The blade could be dull on one side of the blade and it’s tracking to the sharp side.
The wood that you are trying to cut is flat sawn wood and the blade is tracking in the growth rings.
Cut a board in half and cut one piece from one end and the other piece from the other end. See if the cupping is always toward your fence or does it change directions when the board is reversed.

The tension should allow for about 1/4” to 3/8” deflection when pressed in the middle of 7 – 8” span of blade between the two blade guides.

I replaced the spring in my 18” saw many years ago. The new springs use square coil steel instead of round and they allow for greater pressures.

This one is made by carter and they have it at woodcraft. If you compress your spring all the way and don’t get enough tension then a new spring would definitely be in order.

Tires 30.00
Spring 20.00

Send me you address and phone number and I’ll weld up a blade for you and see what that does.
I’ve got all sizes of blade stock. I’ve welded my own blades for 30 years.

Try a different blade preferably new even if its a 1/4” blade. We use 1/4” blades at the toy workshop to resaw 6” wide pine, popular and don’t have any problem. Maybe a small amount of cupping.

Before you put it on Craig List as a boat anchor lets see what we can do. When (Notice I say when) we solve this problem then we will have a great topic for others to read.

A couple of thing to try without spending any money.

Does the wheels track true. Hold a piece of copper wire tight to the frame of the saw and have the other end just touch the wheel on the flat surface and also on the side. Is it round, oval wobbling back and forth, how are the bearings, quiet or growling. The top wheel should have a bearing the bottom wheel should have a solid shaft and the bearing are in the case. Take the belt off the motor and free wheel the lower wheel. is it ok and how about the pulley. It could be causing problems. What about the motor bearings.

Fill in the answers, send me your address and phone number

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

A couple of other questions;

i assume the blade is at 90 degrees to the surface.
can you post a picture of the burning on the wood.
What tooth are you using. it could be that the gullet is filling up with sawdust and has nowhere to go.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

Ah the worst tool in the shop … EVERYONES SHOP. I have not read anyone elses conclusions, but mine is this. Blade quality, shapness, and tension have done these same things to me. You missed the San Metao Wood Show in November. Your next chance is Sacramento in April. There is always someone there that sells Olson Bandsaw Blades. Get the best they make. They resaw maple like butter and stay shape forever. Also, your upper and lower thrust barrings must hit the blade a the same time.

I had this same problem and new sharp blades with proper tension corrected it.

-- Odie, Confucius say, "He who laughs at one's self is BUTT of joke".

Blake – I’m having some of the same problems. I’ve really appreciated this post and have learned a few more things I can check on my band saw.

-- Betsy - GO BUCKS!

Ok, and real quick, because I’ve putzed around enough this evening and need to get some work done, here is the company and contact information for bandsaw accessories and replacement parts:

Iturra Design
4636 Fulton Road
Jacksonville, FL 32225-1332
866-883-8064
904-371-3998
KALLL@comcast.net

Their prices are very reasonable and the additional information about adjusting and tuning your bandsaw contained in their catalog is priceless. Tell them Ethan sent you. They won’t have a clue who I am, but it would make for a nice laugh if 20 people from Lumberjocks contacted them, all saying I’d sent them. :)

Cheers!

-- Ethan, http://www.merganserwoodworks.com, http://greystonegreen.blogspot.com/

The spring that I used I bought from Iturra design.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

The bouncing you’re getting, makes me think you need new tires. If the machine may have been setting a long time with tension on it, it could have made them permanently out of round.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

You guys are awesome. I love you.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

I’d also vote on a few things. New tires. Check the play on the wheels when the tension (and blade) is off of the saw. There shouldn’t be much play in the bearing at all. If the bearing is shot, more tension is only going to warp the alignment even more. With no tension, the wheels could very well line up perfectly. Tighten things a bit on a bad bearing and you’ve got a whole new ball of wax.

And get a new blade.

Karson,

You’re amazing, man. Can’t tell you how much I appreciate your help. You’ve made it your mission to fix my bandsaw. I’m in awe of the LumberJocks community in general as well as your personal attention to my problem. As you can tell, its been pretty frustrating for me.

Anyway, the free time that I get to spend in the shop goes in waves along with life. Sometimes I have more time to blog about woodworking than actually do it. But we will nail this thing down!!! (Even if it takes me a while.)

Anyway, We’ve got the ball rolling. I will let you know when I actually have some time to spend with the beast to check out some of the things you and other LJ’s recommended.

My strategy is to start from scratch. I want to strip it down, put on a link belt (which I actually already have), replace tires and spring, check bearings, and true it up very carefully, one step at a time. I think I’ll blog the whole process, and it sounds like you and I will make it a team effort.

As far as my blade, I am pretty sure it is an Olson Timber Wolf, although I sort of forget. But I paid quite a bit for it. It is thin kerf, variable tpi, and was recommended as being one of the better blades out there. It’s 3/4” wide. It doesn’t have many hours on it at all. It should be fairly sharp.

Thanks again, everyone.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

My saw bounced like mad and it was a drive pulley issue and a drive belt issue…it didn’t have anything to do with the wheels, tires, and blades. That’s just on my saw. A link belt fixed most of the bounce, a quick tear down and making sure the drive pulleys and motor pulleys were coplanar and I got rid of the rest. Just my 2cents.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Hi

This site has a wealth of information which may assist

http://www.allbandsawblades.com/blade_terminology.htm

Good Health
Tony Ward

-- Bandsaw Box Plans

I love my bandsaw. It’s a Reliant. Was sold by Woodworkers Warehouse when they were in business. It was sitting in the store with a reduced price sticker on it.

Grizzly sold one that looked just like it. An 18” version that looks like a big copy of the 14” guys. Made in Tiawan. But it works great. I replaced the motor with a 3HP so now it cuts wood without slowing down.

Give me a call when you are able and want to talk.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

Karson – That’s interesting. My dust collector and Sanding center are both Reliant. I got them from Tool Post
about 8 years ago before they went belly up. Both have done a great job. I didn’t think anyone had ever heard of them.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

On ebay

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

Blake,

You may have done this already but there is a very simple test you can do to see if you have a tesion problme, a wheel is out of round, etc. all of which can contribute to the problem you’re having.

First – UNPLUG THE BANDSAW OR DISCONNECT IT WITH A CUTOFF SWITCH IF IT HAS ONE

Next, open the saw up to where you can get at the blade on the return side of the blade loop (opposite the cutting side of the loop).

Next, while you slowly turn the top wheel (or bottom) pick at the back of the blade like a guitar string. If the wheels are in round then the pitch you hear won’t change. My guess is you will hear the pitch go UP and DOWN. That tells you that the wheels are out of round. If that’s the case, one reason you can’t saw straight is when the pitch goes DOWN, that’s when the balde is the most loose. The blade will wander. Pulling it back into tension (when the pitch goes UP) will try to yank it back and you’ll probably get some overshoot in the direction of blade travel. Regardless of what else you do to fix your saw – if this is going on nothing else is going to help. Check this!!

-- Sam

Sam – Interesting, I hadn’t thought of that.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

You guys rock. I’m gonna try all of these things… none of which were in any of the books.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

I don’t know Blake if it’s not in a book then it must not be any good at all. Just ask Martin to delete this blog I guess. I figure those guys who write the books must know everything.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

True dat.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

I found the ‘guitar string’ method in FWW and it might have been Mark Duginski. But I tried it and it does work!

-- Sam

dang – This is awesome. I’m going to try and see if there may yet be life in my old bandsaw!
I have a very similar problem with an old craftsman (older than my son and he’s 26).
I’d given up on it and considered trying to invent a new tool with it cause I don’t need a boat anchor~
Purchased a new delta, but 2 saws are better than 1 – IF I can get it cutting straight again.
Thanks Blake for asking and all you guys for the answers

-- CaptnA - "When someone hurts you, write it in the sand so the winds of forgiveness will scatter the memory... "

Blake,

Am I wrong or you have a 3/4 or 1” blade on that saw? Your bandsaw (any 14” really) cannot tension properly a blade wider than 1/2. You really do not need a very wide blade to resaw. I have no trouble using even a 3/16” blade. The 1/2 is a little faster but any blade works for me. By your description, it sounds (to me) that the blade is under tensioned. Sulfolk Machinery (timberwolf people) have a test for tensioning that consists in running the blade without the guides near the blade. You tension the blade until is stops fluttering then turn it 1/4 turn back. Look up on their website,

Alin

-- -- Alin Dobra, Gainesville, Florida

If all else fails, maybe an exorcism is in order.

-- http://dustynewt.webs.com/

Sorry, Blake, I just can’t think of anything that hasn’t already been said.

-- Thos. Angle, Owyhee Design, Oregon

I have two bandsaws…............one of which is the same as yours.

new tires and increase the tension. To some degree a 3/4” blade doesnt mean much, its the amount of teeth per inch that makes a difference. Try using 4 to 6 TPI….....

That said and the following isnt true of all salesman but. that saw was never made to be a RE-SAW bandsaw period so why get frustrated. Even 30 thousand dollar re-saw bandsaws have their problems, all one needs to do is look at how rough dimensioned lumber varies in thickness and width through out the board.

I did a three day GIG selling European tools at a Hobby tool woodworking tools. The brand I represented was “Rojec” and it competed with Laguna. Before I go on, might I add that both brands make good tools but.

A customer asked me to resaw a piece of Jatoba in half, board measured about 9” wide to which I replied “not a chance” much to the dissapointment of my boss. I expalined that the saw we sold was never designed to cut through it and he said that Laguna would do it no problem…..........so off both of went to watch.

The Laguna guy gave a very impressive introduction to the saw, asking if he wanted 6 pieces of 1/16” thick slabs or 3 pieces of 1/8” etc…............they settled on “just cut in half”. The carbide tipped re-saw blade hummed silently and the game began.

Within inches of cutting the Jatoba, the saw began to scream, the blade was seriously twisted in the wood followed by a big bang and the whole booth shut down…................plain and simple, true to my word, the saw was never designed to “re-saw”.

I have a monster Delta re-saw bandsaw, three phase. I never use a fence when re-sawing and prefer to just eye ball the cut. If I didnt then the blade would be all over the map and I would curse. I did recently cut through 12” thick ash to make guide bushing for a concrete mixer and the ash was choke full of knots…..a 3/4” blade with 4 tpi…...........worked fine for all 24 pieces but I took my time.

The other bandsaw sits in my basement, chugging along like a chew chew train and it works just fine for what I use it for.

patience my friend, patience

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((º> holy cow… Look at all that information!!
If none of these work out, and ya don’t to replace it… Drive some 6”bolts into your shop floor! After tuning . ?
Just a neanderthal thought, but sometimes they work out for me,... Go outside the box.. It looks like a pretty thin base and legs… Drive em’ into the ground.. ha Hey I really still love the mirrors you made.. I’m trying to refine my polishing technique. Those mirrors looked well polished what finish did ya use? If u don’t mind me flying off the subject for a moment.. Patrick

-- PJM.`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((º> why's there a light in fridge and not the freezer? , aka, the wood hunter.aka tigermaple5

Ok, so I’ve got some parts on order and I’ve got a few things to try. Here’s the plan:

• Replace belt with link belt (on order, I had some but was about 8” short)
• Replace spring (received)
• Replace tires with urethane (one received, one on order. I thought they were sold as a pair. Turns out they are twice as expensive as I thought… $30 EACH!)
• Use 1/2” blade so I can tension it properly (I don’t think I can get enough tension in a 3/4” blade)
• Drill the divot which will keep the tensioning pin from sliding out of place and warping
• Clean, lube, and assemble with care and a detail “tuning up”
• Bolt the base to a square of wood and load it up with deadweight (below the stand) for stability

Here’s some of the progress I got done earlier this evening:

(By the way, I don’t know if I mentioned it or not, but I talked with Karson on the Phone for about 45 minutes last week and he got me back on track and brought my anxiety down a little.)

I checked the wheels for the first time with my dial indicator. I had always seen a wobble in the wheels but it was less than I thought. The top wheel only has about 0.010” of wobble from side to side and the bottom has about 0.025” of wobble. I think that should be within reason for this saw.

Here are the two readings on the bottom wheel:

Here is the tensioning pin which I had noticed had bent under pressure… but it also wasn’t as bad as I thought after inspection (you can see a little bit of deflection):

I am surprised there was not a divot in the frame to keep this pin from sliding. Here is the before and after pictures of where this divot should have been and where I created it:

The new tire wasn’t as hard to replace as I’d heard. No hot soapy water necessary. Just pulled it into place and then went around the wheel with a screwdriver underneath the tire to make sure it was aligned down the center of the wheel:

Here is the new Carter Spring which I installed:

Thanks to everyone for coming together on this for me. You have been a huge help. I will keep posting updates as I go along. This old saw will be completely overhauled when I am done.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

Cool Blake, keep us posted!

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

Looking forwad to hearing your progres.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

Glad to hear things are looking up, Blake.

Good form, Karson, on helping him along!

-- Ethan, http://www.merganserwoodworks.com, http://greystonegreen.blogspot.com/

Just been reading the blog…... and I am just wondering how the story ended…...

-- Michael, Fort Worth, TX. "I wood if I could!"

Well, Blake, I’m with Michael, Did all the tune ups work? I am waiting to find out so I can check mine, too!

God Bless,
Hawg

-- Saving barnwood from the scrapyards

Dang! I don’t even own a bandsaw yet and I’m putting this thread in my favorites… I continue to be impressed with the knowledge in the LJ community… I’m curious, too, how it ended…

-- As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17)

Nothing super definitive yet, it seems that I have good days on the bandsaw and some frustrating days still… I think I still need a new blade, and I haven’t actually had a ton of time to play with it yet. I still need to put the wheel brush back on because I think sawdust is sticking to the tires and effecting the blade.

So as you can see, even after all that good advice, a bandsaw can be very temperamental. I think I have gotten the main problems improved quite a bit. The other day I did a small amount of resawing with a narrow blade (3/8”) and it actually worked quite well. So I still think the main problem is blade tension, since you can put more tension into a narrower blade.

Thanks for asking.

I’ll let you know if I get everything just perfectly tuned but it will take me a while of using it first.

-- Check out my new website! http://www.theeasellife.com

Blake,

I concur with Nathan on his Iturra Designs advice. If after the wealth of information in this post still isn’t working, I would try calling them and speak to Louis directly. His catalog is not just a list of parts, but and education in bandsaws. My bandsaw is a similar vintage to yours I would guess and I was able to tune it up using much of the above advice and it works great.

-- Michael, Seattle, WA

Blake, Don’t give up on these older bandsaws. I have 2 of them. One is the regular rockwell wood cutting only and the other is the rockwell metal/wood one. I took my time and tuned them up and they work flawlessly. Like other have said, be patient. I am sure you will have a fine tool when finished. Your blade selection and tension and tracking adjustment will be the major factors in getting the best results for resawing. John

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

Holy smokes, great bit of information. Hats off to the crew here for some very insightful suggestions.

I got nothin that hasn’t been suggested. I am gonna park it with Sam. Sounds like high low tension and tracking in the direction it is pointing when tension comes back online.

Wow, just noticed the last post was 5 months ago. What conclusions have you come to???

-- Doug, woodworking in Alabama

man did I learn a lot from this thread.

-- www.robneves.com