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Hammer Veneer Staining

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Forum topic by jonsprague0000 posted 12-16-2016 02:38 AM 428 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jonsprague0000

104 posts in 1424 days


12-16-2016 02:38 AM

Topic tags/keywords: venner hammer veneer hot hide glue hide glue marquetry stain maple curly maple

I hammer veneered two pieces of curly maple with HHG and went to re-hammer a few bubbles. During the hammering I noticed a few dark streaks appearing, but just thought that the veneer hammer was just marking the wood slightly due to the water and friction. I figured I could just lightly scrape it off. After I finished I went to scrape and sand, but the spots seem to be deep stains. I’m afraid I will sand right through the veneer trying to remove them.

Has anyone experienced this before? Help! I’m afraid I’m going to have to re-do the project. My hammer is a Kunz (I assume cast iron) hammer. I cleaned it before hammering with vinegar and also used some vinegar to remove glue on the veneer. I’m assuming that isn’t related, but wanted to mention that.


9 replies so far

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jonsprague0000

104 posts in 1424 days


#1 posted 12-16-2016 02:38 AM

Shipwright – I assume you may have experience with this?

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shampeon

1775 posts in 2019 days


#2 posted 12-16-2016 03:54 AM

What kind of wood is the veneer and substrate? Vinegar will definitely stain high-tannin woods like oak.

You could try to use oxalic acid to remove the stain, but it depends on the veneer, etc.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

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jonsprague0000

104 posts in 1424 days


#3 posted 12-16-2016 04:15 AM

The veneer is curly maple with a wood backer. I’m not sure of what type of wood the backer is. The substrate is eastern white pine. I put the vinegar on the veneer around 10 minutes before hammer veneering and didn’t notice any change. I only saw the change after starting to hammer. It felt like it was coming from the veneer hammer, but I can’t be positive.

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Lazyman

1503 posts in 1223 days


#4 posted 12-16-2016 04:37 AM

It will help if you post some pictures.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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jonsprague0000

104 posts in 1424 days


#5 posted 12-16-2016 06:10 AM

Here is the stain and what it looks like after I scrape it off. I had to go down far to get the majority of it off and there is only an extremely thin piece of veneer remaining.

I tried another piece without vinegar and noticed the start of slight coloring.

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shipwright

7779 posts in 2633 days


#6 posted 12-16-2016 03:16 PM

If you are using a two ply veneer then that will be your problem. You are likely seeing the glue line between the microscopically thin curly maple and the backer. Get some raw veneer, as thick as you can find, and try again. 1/42” is about the norm these days but 1/32” is still around but harder to find. Good luck.
No need for the vinegar. Hide glue cleans up with water.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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jonsprague0000

104 posts in 1424 days


#7 posted 12-16-2016 05:56 PM

Paul, I was able to use a scraper and remove the majority of the staining so I don’t believe I’m seeing through to the glue line. When I re-hammer to press bubbles down I’m seeing the markings only where I’m pressing down very hard. I then see tinted hide glue on my veneer hammer.

I’m thinking it could either be the hammer iron or finish coming off. Or maybe the 2-ply glue seeping through the wood pores? Is that possible?

Have you ever seen an iron (I think) hammer cause issues like this? Do you use brass?

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shipwright

7779 posts in 2633 days


#8 posted 12-16-2016 10:07 PM

I’ve used brass but my current hammers are steel and copper and no such problems. You may be getting a stain from the metal but your top photo above really looks like the factory glue (likely a urea formaldehyde) showing through.
Regardless I wouldn’t consider using that stuff for this kind of woodworking (just my opinion). Raw veneer is so much better, even the thin sliced stuff we are able to get today. Some places sell limited species in 1/16”, notably Certainly Wood but there are others. For what you are doing, the thicker you can use, the better, even more so if you get into marquetry.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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punkin611

49 posts in 657 days


#9 posted 12-17-2016 02:19 AM

The discoloring is caused by reheating the two ply veneer too hot in an effort to get the veneer to relax enough to hammer down. The glue in the veneer ply is not hide glue. You cannot hammer down two ply veneer. Reheat and take it all off. If you do not want to use raw veneer(which you should IMO) get a vac. bag or use clamps and cauls. Hammer veneering with hot hide glue is easy with raw veneer plenty of video on web to get you on right track. Good luck.

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