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Faster Drying Alternative to Arm-R-Seal?

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Forum topic by TheLastDeadMouse posted 11-29-2016 04:05 AM 1052 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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TheLastDeadMouse

38 posts in 1210 days


11-29-2016 04:05 AM

I make higher end bottle carriers that get a nice glossy finish with several coats of Arm-R-Seal. I have a wholesale order that they wanted for the Christmas shopping season, so I’m looking for an alternative that’ll allow me to put those coats on over the course of a day or two instead of a week.

Does anyone have suggestions for something that replicates the ease of application, color, and water and alcohol resistance of Arm-R-Seal, but with a substantially faster drying time?


12 replies so far

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Carloz

962 posts in 426 days


#1 posted 11-29-2016 07:57 AM

Water based dries in 2 hours but it is more difficult to apply by hand. Also it is color neutral while Arm-R-Seal gives amber tint to the wood.

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BinghamtonEd

2286 posts in 2204 days


#2 posted 11-29-2016 01:59 PM

Can you spray? Target Coatings offers some water-based alternatives that are meant to look like oil-based finishes. I’ve used a couple of their products (clear WB lacquer, and custom-tinted), and have been very pleased. You could shoot numerous coats in a day. If you did it soon, that would allow you plenty of time for curing (the products I’ve used have a cure time of about a week). The durability (water/alcohol resistance) of some of their products is very good. And, the customer support is very good, as well, the questions are usually answered quickly and in detail.

If you aren’t set up for spraying, but need to get it done fast, I use the Earlex5500 to apply it, and that’s only around $300. It’s not a commercial setup, but it’ll work.

-- - The mightiest oak in the forest is just a little nut that held its ground.

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Carloz

962 posts in 426 days


#3 posted 11-29-2016 02:05 PM

Oh, since it is bottle carriers you can wipe on dozen ot so coats of shellac. It has similar appearence (sometimes i use it on the same piece as arm r seal in higher ise area) dries instantly and it is even easier to apply than arm r seal

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johnstoneb

2634 posts in 2007 days


#4 posted 11-29-2016 02:07 PM

shellac dissolves in alcohol.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View bold1's profile

bold1

283 posts in 1681 days


#5 posted 11-29-2016 02:12 PM

I’ve started using Zar Ultra oil based exterior fast drying poly. It dries in 2 hours.

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3292 posts in 1632 days


#6 posted 11-29-2016 02:33 PM

The hard part is getting the color right. Arm-R-Seal has a nice appearance on a lot of wood.

If it were me, I’d look into 2 possibilities, both involving spraying fast drying finishes:

1) Use waterborne poly like GF High Performance and tint it slightly with yellow or similar dye. You can get a look pretty similar to Arm-R-Seal.
2) Spray a couple of coats of shellac (these coats dry incredibly fast) and then use a couple of coats of the untinted High Performance. You’ll get very similar color and the poly will protect the shellac from alcohol. You can do this in one day.

I’d go with #2 myself, but either may work. You can do them without spraying as well. Although I prefer spraying for both, on smaller items I have more luck with hand application.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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don1960

226 posts in 2521 days


#7 posted 11-29-2016 04:03 PM

Another product I’ve used a few times is Deft® Waterborne Clear Wood Finish. Dries to the touch in 30 minutes, recoat in 2 hours. Dries to a very durable finish. It dries clear, so a couple coats of shellac first would get a bit of a tint if you wanted that.

Easily do a couple coats of shellac and 2 coats of the DEFT in a day. The deft comes in either spray cans of quarts. I’ve both brushed it on and wiped it on with a rag. Both ways work very well. Never tried the spray cans, though.

-- -- Don from PA

View TheLastDeadMouse's profile

TheLastDeadMouse

38 posts in 1210 days


#8 posted 11-29-2016 08:34 PM

I like the idea of doing a couple coats of shellac first then top coating, but my understanding is that if you’re going to top coat it, you’d normally use a dewaxed shellac, which has more of a clear color than the amber I prefer. Its also usually used with just one coat as a sealer when used under a top coat.

The Wood Whisperer did a not super scientific test of both waxed and dewaxed shellac in a single coat under two coats of poly without issues, has anyone had any personal experience doing this? Also putting multiple coats of shellac under their top coat?

I do plan to pick up a can of shellac today and do a test board, but other’s experience is always welcome.

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3292 posts in 1632 days


#9 posted 11-29-2016 08:37 PM

The basic Bullseye dewaxed shellac provides color close to that of arm-r-seal. I did a desk using Bullseye amber shellac with wax and topped it with waterborne poly, mostly out of ignorance, and there’s been no problem, although that experiment is only about 18 months old so far.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

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don1960

226 posts in 2521 days


#10 posted 11-29-2016 08:54 PM

I’m usually too lazy to mix my own shellac, but I know Woodcraft sells shellac flakes in different shades from blonde to dark amber that is dewaxed.

so, you could get both the tint you want and dewaxed. (have your cake and eat it too, I guess) :-)

-- -- Don from PA

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3292 posts in 1632 days


#11 posted 11-29-2016 08:57 PM

I do make my own shellac now, but the basic bullseye works for some things.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View Oakdesk's profile

Oakdesk

11 posts in 1982 days


#12 posted 11-29-2016 10:17 PM

I spray on two coats of dewaxed SealCoat shellac that I tint slightly amber with Wizard Tint dyes. Over that goes two or three coats of Target Coatings WB lacquer EM6000. All five coats can be sprayed in a few hours.

For spraying, I use an inexpensive Harbor Freight airbrush for smaller items, or a Critter spray gun for furniture. Either option gets you into the spray business at minimal cost, assuming that you already have a compressor.

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