LumberJocks

Newbie looking for a new saw

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by CheeseSteak1 posted 11-23-2016 10:44 PM 520 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View CheeseSteak1's profile

CheeseSteak1

10 posts in 385 days


11-23-2016 10:44 PM

Been trolling on here for about a month now and decided it was time to join the family. I’m an ex middle school shop teacher trying to get back into woodworking. I left education 7 years ago and have been slowly building up my home shop ever since. My classroom however was stocked by the previous teacher with all Powermatic equipment. I had everything from a 37” wide belt sander to a 20” planer. The table saw is what I miss most and is currently what I need to upgrade at home. Currently I have a 10” Delta contractor and it’s time to move on. I’ve been looking on craigslist for 2 months now but most are asking too much and won’t budge on price. I literally witnessed a used saw sell for more than it was new. Due to the uneducated buyers on craigslist I’m also considering to buy a new Grizzly G1023. I mostly build outdoor furniture but want to get into cabinets, tables and office furniture. Questions: Do these saws hold there value as well as the prices are showing? Am I crazy? Are there other saws I should be looking at? Any insight on this would be helpful. Budget: $400-$600 for a used saw or $800-$1300 for new

CL Listing

G1023 – $1,000
https://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/5847831477.html

Jet JCS-10 – $775
https://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/5864516296.html

Powermatic PM72 – $1200
https://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/5841984381.html

Thanks


14 replies so far

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

1273 posts in 755 days


#1 posted 11-24-2016 01:57 AM

CheeseSteak1,

Wow. Not much available in St Louis by way of cabinet saws. Looking at the current selection available, I would fear that after spending $750 to $1200, the cabinet saw would underperform and/or require a lot effort and additional money to get it to work just right. My take on the available saws is…

1. The used Grizzly has evidently gotten a lot of use since the motor and belts had to be replaced. I wonder what else might need fixing.

2. There is a LJ review from 2013 that gave the used Jet JCS-10 a B+ and seemed to complain that the saw was underpowered at 2hp, although I was a little confused by the review. http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3643

3. The PM72 is quite old and runs on 3 phases. The big motor converted to single phase would draw a lot of amps. While Powermatic is a great brand, this older saw may have a few problems that would add to the $1200 price.

If you are unwilling to wait, the best bet might be a weekend drive to the Grizzly showroom in Springfield. The good thing about buying new is the warranty and the knowledge that the machine has not been abused. With your experience you should be able to quiz the sale folks there and select the right saw for you. Otherwise a new cabinet saw will require a bigger budget, in the $2000 to $3000 range.

If you can wait, then perhaps additional used cabinet saws will appear on Craigslist or ebay in the coming months. While a lot more work on your part, perhaps trolling the auction sites will reveal some auctions or estate sales that will offer woodworking tools.

There are several posts regarding the Grizzly 1023. Here is a LJ 2013 review of the Grizzly 1023RLW 10” 3 HP 220V Table Saw. http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3284

As for my personal experience with Grizzly, the only Grizzly machine I have is a high-end Grizzly Bandsaw. It is very nice, but in the couple of years I have owned it, it has not gotten enough use to observe any long term problems that may exist. But it seems like a great machine. I would expect the same performance from their cabinet saws.

View CheeseSteak1's profile

CheeseSteak1

10 posts in 385 days


#2 posted 11-24-2016 03:15 AM

JBrow, thanks for the input! I agree, $750-$1200 is way to much to pay + whatever it cost to get it dialed in . I’m not crazy about ebay unless its close enough to inspect and pick up. Funny you recommend taking a trip to Grizzly. Yesterday I noticed they have a location in Springfield, MO and was thinking the same thing. Ironically, my nephew is playing in the HS State Football Championship game this weekend and guess where it’s at? Yep! Springfield. Any other 2hp-3hp saws I should be looking at in my budget? I hate putting all my eggs in one basket. Thanks again

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

5990 posts in 2034 days


#3 posted 11-24-2016 05:44 AM

Budget: $400-$600 for a used saw or $800-$1300 for new

That makes no sense.. which is it… $600 or $1300 max? Does that mean that you wouldn’t even consider something like this 3hp Powermatic 66 w/Biesemeyer, extension table and mobile base, asking $1000 just because it’s used? Or this Unisaw with an asking price of $550 but would need another $200 for a VFD (putting it over your $600 ‘used’ budget)?

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View CheeseSteak1's profile

CheeseSteak1

10 posts in 385 days


#4 posted 11-24-2016 05:53 AM

It’s called a “price range”. Just a few permitters I set based on the used saw market in my area. I would consider anything in my range as long as the price reflects the product. Now that you mention it! I do have a 3hp powermatic with biesemeyer, ext table and movie base for $550 in my area, but it’s 3 phase. I was thinking after I get the saw and 3 phase converter it’s not much of a deal. Thoughts?

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

5990 posts in 2034 days


#5 posted 11-24-2016 05:56 AM

Now that you mention it! I do have a 3hp powermatic with biesemeyer, ext table and movie base for $550 in my area, but it s 3 phase. I was thinking after I get the saw and 3 phase converter it s not much of a deal. Thoughts?
- CheeseSteak1

Add $200 for the VFD, then take the starter off the saw and sell it to get back most (or all) of the money you spent on the VFD. 3 phase motors are bullet proof, much more efficient and robust than a single phase one, and with the VFD, you can do things that single phase machines can only dream of :)

Mount the VFD on the saw in place of the starter and the machine becomes plug-n-play with any standard household single phase 240V supply.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

637 posts in 737 days


#6 posted 11-24-2016 05:59 AM

6 feet of cast iron, wow, That is a beautiful saw. I will have to echo what jbrow says about the grizzly tent sale. I went 2 years ago before i ever considered woodworking as a hobby. There are some true deals to be had if you get in line early, real early. While i dont currently own any grizzly tools, their reputation for amazing customer service will ensure they get by business in the future.

View CheeseSteak1's profile

CheeseSteak1

10 posts in 385 days


#7 posted 11-24-2016 06:00 AM

Thanks! Looking into VDF right now. I was only aware or static converters which reduce power by 1/3 and a rotary converter.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

5990 posts in 2034 days


#8 posted 11-24-2016 06:09 AM

Teco (Westinghouse) is the most popular.. Here is a 3hp sensorless vector drive for $207... or you can go with a cheaper V/hz drive like this one for $197. Not only will it give you 100% power, but you can set it up to over-torque, and it will sustain up to 150% rated load for short periods of time (1 minute IIRC). Not to mention all the other goodies like soft start, electronic breaking, built in overload protection, multiple speeds, trivial control station wiring and additional inputs for stuff like emergency stop, constant torque, etc…

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Depending on the FLA of the motor, you could probably go with an even less expensive “2HP” model, since it can supply up to 7.5A@230V 3-phase. My 3HP Baldor is 7.4A, so the “3HP” model would be overkill and unnecessary.

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View CheeseSteak1's profile

CheeseSteak1

10 posts in 385 days


#9 posted 11-24-2016 06:13 AM



Teco (Westinghouse) is the most popular.. Here is a 3hp sensorless vector drive for $207... or you can go with a cheaper V/hz drive like this one for $197. Not only will it give you 100% power, but you can set it up to over-torque, and it will sustain up to 150% rated load for short periods of time (1 minute IIRC). Not to mention all the other goodies like soft start, electronic breaking, built in overload protection, multiple speeds, trivial control station wiring and additional inputs for stuff like emergency stop, constant torque, etc…

Cheers,
Brad

BAD ACE!!! Thanks for the input. I might be crashing this guys thanksgiving to pick it up tomorrow.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

5990 posts in 2034 days


#10 posted 11-24-2016 06:14 AM

6 feet of cast iron, wow, That is a beautiful saw.

Absolutely agree! I’ve never seen a full cast iron extension table before… If I were closer, I’d be first in line to take a look at it :) I can only imagine what that thing weighs. http://springfield.craigslist.org/tls/5841263615.html

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View maxhall's profile

maxhall

75 posts in 2036 days


#11 posted 11-24-2016 09:49 AM

I agree with Brad that is a hell of a deal on that Powermatic. A cast iron extension of that size is ridiculous. I myself purchased a PM66 3HP single phase that was pretty much plug and play. I did disassemble and replace bearing in arbor and motor, belts and a thorough cleaning but all in all out less than $75 to have a saw that was good as new. Add an Incra Miter gauge and a quality full kerf blade and you’ll be all set. Don’t be afraid of used equipment. There really isn’t that much to inspect and if some things can’t be verified like operation of motor, that just means you are in a stronger bargaining position.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7784 posts in 3211 days


#12 posted 11-24-2016 01:01 PM

It’s worth noting that the Jet is really an early hybrid saw with table mounted trunnions and connecting rods as an arbor carriage IIRC, not a true industrial cabinet saw like the Griz or PM. $500-600ish is about what it’s worth

That particular Griz is steep @ $1000 IMO. They’re probably trying to recoup some of their part costs. $700 is closer to what it’s worth…better off with a new one at $1400 vs used at $1k.

The PM is in a different league…very stout saw.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View alittleoff's profile

alittleoff

445 posts in 1112 days


#13 posted 11-24-2016 02:49 PM

I use the teco drive on my old delta 3 hp saw and it works great. Go with the teco. Very easy to setup.
Gerald

View CheeseSteak1's profile

CheeseSteak1

10 posts in 385 days


#14 posted 11-25-2016 05:44 PM

OK, so i’ve missed a few good deals on 3 phase equipment because I wasn’t considering them until I was informed about VFDs. Here is an older 3 phase Powermatic 66 I’m going to look at it tomorrow. Anyone have any input on this saw or this style fence. I don’t think i’ve seen one of this era. Thanks for the help

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/5861640445.html

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com