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Forum topic by prad posted 11-23-2016 02:53 PM 452 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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prad

15 posts in 503 days


11-23-2016 02:53 PM

Topic tags/keywords: electrical

Not sure where to post this.

I’ve found I need to run 220 to my shop to give my planer and tablesaw the juice they need. I’ve got em wired for 120 but that pulls too much amps from the measly circuit. I’m planning to wire a 220 circuit from the house and get it over to the attached shop. Unfortunately winter is here and I don’t think its going to work to get it properly trenched in this year.

My question: Would it work to simply have the wire laid across the ground between the house and the shop (just until spring time)? I’d appreciate any feedback.


17 replies so far

View JCamp's profile

JCamp

473 posts in 386 days


#1 posted 11-23-2016 03:19 PM

My two cents….. yes it will work. Electric is kind of like water it flows where the load is. That being said I personally wouldn’t do it. I don’t know how far ur planning on going but around my home me or someone else always has a vehicle, mower, tractor, fourwheeler in the yard. To me I wouldn’t chance it. The wire insulation could get a hole in it an ground out of u get snow or rain or shock the unsuspecting person that’s dumb enough to stand on it.
Would u happen to have a 220 generator that could get u by until spring?
Do u hav a friend or neighbor with a tractor an a plow that could dig u a ditch? Technically the ground is only frozen a foot or so down
Can u hide a temp fix from ur insurance company/city inspector or snoopy neighbor?
If u do decide to do it make sure u talk to someone and verify that the wire insulation won’t break down over time since it will be exposed to the elements. Ideally it would b the same direct bury (assuming ur going under ground an not over head) that u can reuse for your permanent wiring this spring.
Just my two cents. Be safe

-- Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

2953 posts in 548 days


#2 posted 11-23-2016 03:25 PM

picture would help a lot ….but if its attached can you run it in attic ....... where is main panel ? is there room in it ???

-- Tony Reinholds,Pa. REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View B4B's profile

B4B

154 posts in 1193 days


#3 posted 11-23-2016 03:50 PM

You mention trenching, but then say is attached.

If attached can you run the wire inside the house or use THHN wire in a conduit along the outside of the house?

If it’s detached could you install one or two in-use 120v recepticals, each on a dedicated branch circuit on the outside of the house then get and get a pair of quality 10 or 12 gauge extension cords of sufficient length to run to the shop when you are using the tools and coil it up when not in use. Keep in mind voltage drop over longer runs (100 feet comes to mind) may require a thicker wire (10 awg vs 12 awg for a 120v circuit, regardless of amperage).

Also, you’ll have to check electrical code, but I think you can only have 2 branch circuits going to any given out building/auxiliary structure before you have to install a sub panel, not sure sure specifically of the requirement.

If it were me, hire an electrician and do it right, meet code and ensure proper permitting.

-- There's two routers in my vocab, one that moves data and one that removes wood, the latter being more relevant on this forum.

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prad

15 posts in 503 days


#4 posted 11-23-2016 03:56 PM

Sorry for the confusion, I meant to write detached shop.

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prad

15 posts in 503 days


#5 posted 11-23-2016 04:07 PM


My two cents….. yes it will work. Electric is kind of like water it flows where the load is. That being said I personally wouldn t do it. I don t know how far ur planning on going but around my home me or someone else always has a vehicle, mower, tractor, fourwheeler in the yard. To me I wouldn t chance it. The wire insulation could get a hole in it an ground out of u get snow or rain or shock the unsuspecting person that s dumb enough to stand on it.
Would u happen to have a 220 generator that could get u by until spring?
Do u hav a friend or neighbor with a tractor an a plow that could dig u a ditch? Technically the ground is only frozen a foot or so down
Can u hide a temp fix from ur insurance company/city inspector or snoopy neighbor?
If u do decide to do it make sure u talk to someone and verify that the wire insulation won t break down over time since it will be exposed to the elements. Ideally it would b the same direct bury (assuming ur going under ground an not over head) that u can reuse for your permanent wiring this spring.
Just my two cents. Be safe

- JCamp

I’ve exhausted all my favors for the year. The span between the house and shop is about 15 foot, so not too bad for hand trenching.

Ya I was really worried about breakdown of the wire, I don’t think it likes to be stepped on and is not resistant to the elements.


You mention trenching, but then say is attached.

If attached can you run the wire inside the house or use THHN wire in a conduit along the outside of the house?

If it s detached could you install one or two in-use 120v recepticals, each on a dedicated branch circuit on the outside of the house then get and get a pair of quality 10 or 12 gauge extension cords of sufficient length to run to the shop when you are using the tools and coil it up when not in use. Keep in mind voltage drop over longer runs (100 feet comes to mind) may require a thicker wire (10 awg vs 12 awg for a 120v circuit, regardless of amperage).

Also, you ll have to check electrical code, but I think you can only have 2 branch circuits going to any given out building/auxiliary structure before you have to install a sub panel, not sure sure specifically of the requirement.

If it were me, hire an electrician and do it right, meet code and ensure proper permitting.

- B4B

Here is my revised idea. Wire a 220 receptacle to the side of the house facing the shed and then make an extension cord long enough to get to my shop tools. I found this wire that appears to be good for making weather resistant extension cords: https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/10-3-sjoow-portable-cord-300v-ul-csa.html? . I think if I did it this way it would more safe. I could just unplug the extension cord and drag it into the shop. Next year I can get it done properly.

How does that sound to everyone?

View prad's profile

prad

15 posts in 503 days


#6 posted 11-23-2016 04:14 PM

BTW the motors on the tablesaw and planer both draw 24 amps at peak (wired for 110). I don’t currently have a 30 amp 110 circuit in the whole house aside from some dedicated appliances, so running a 110 extension cord from somewhere is a no go with adding a new circuit. I’ve managed to run the tablesaw by takin it easy while cutting but now I’m routinely kicking the breaker. The planer won’t fully power up before it kicks the breaker.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2711 posts in 1316 days


#7 posted 11-23-2016 04:19 PM



How does that sound to everyone?

- prad

Perfect!!

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4756 posts in 2329 days


#8 posted 11-23-2016 04:21 PM

Can’t add much to what has been said, but if it’s only 15’ it sure looks like you could get it under at least a little dirt until spring. It doesn’t have to be buried very deep to be safe until spring, and leave a little slack at one end to put it deeper. Your extension cord idea is better than leaving the Romex on top of the ground, I’d go that way if you absolutely can’t bury the feeder.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View JCamp's profile

JCamp

473 posts in 386 days


#9 posted 11-23-2016 04:31 PM

I second what Fred said. Cord is a much better idea than a “hot” wire just laying on the ground but even if u just buried it a foot that should b about enough for permanent installation unless u live where codes r a factor. Digging would also depend on where u r located Im in Ohio an it’s been freezing at night but warms up in the afternoon so I’d still b able to dig that deep without much issue.
I will say that if u are going to go ahead and wire a 220 outlet on ur house go ahead an get a nice big breaker for it so that in the event that you’d ever need to plug into a generator to power the house you hav a good start (might b a plus if u go to sell it later). Not sure if that’s a common issue for most of u but I’ve ran my generator for days waiting for the power company to get the power back on.
Whatever u do just be safe

-- Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might

View prad's profile

prad

15 posts in 503 days


#10 posted 11-23-2016 04:34 PM

Burying it really is a hassle this year not just because the ground may be hard. There is a brick patio that would have to get pulled up and wood stairs going down to that patio would also be in the way.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

838 posts in 1471 days


#11 posted 11-23-2016 05:10 PM

You could run the cable through some PVC conduit to bridge the gap and then lay a few landscaping pavers over the conduit to keep it from being movers around during the winter.
Just my 2 cents.

-- Chem, Central California

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

5990 posts in 2034 days


#12 posted 11-23-2016 05:16 PM

That SJOOW cord should be fine… SJ = Hard Service, OO = both inner and outer jackets are oil resistant and W = weather resistant (ie: Outdoor rated). A better choice would be SOOW, which is extra hard service (SJ is just hard service), and going with a 4 conductor wire would allow you to split off 120v circuits if needed since it will carry the extra neutral line for that purpose. Additionally, if your machines are rated 24A@120, then they will only need 12A@240V, so 10ga is a bit oversized… a 12/4 should be more than adequate and a bit cheaper… here is a 25 foot roll of the stuff at the BORG for about $30. Add a plug/outlet and you will be good to go. Remember, you will also have to re-wire and change the plugs on your machines as well, so get them all at the same time.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View prad's profile

prad

15 posts in 503 days


#13 posted 11-23-2016 05:26 PM



That SJOOW cord should be fine… SJ = Hard Service, OO = both inner and outer jackets are oil resistant and W = weather resistant (ie: Outdoor rated). A better choice would be SOOW, which is extra hard service (SJ is just hard service), and going with a 4 conductor wire would allow you to split off 120v circuits if needed since it will carry the extra neutral line for that purpose. Additionally, if your machines are rated 24A@120, then they will only need 12A@240V, so 10ga is a bit oversized… a 12/4 should be more than adequate and a bit cheaper… here is a 25 foot roll of the stuff at the BORG for about $30. Add a plug/outlet and you will be good to go. Remember, you will also have to re-wire and change the plugs on your machines as well, so get them all at the same time.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Thanks Brad,

I’m not sure why I’d need “extra-hard” I had thought that was for higher voltage. Could you elaborate?
I’ve got 20 amp 120 service to the shop currently, so I don’t think I’ll need to split this off into 120. 20 amp is plenty for all my light duty stuff and lighting. Anything that will pull a lot I’ll get it to run off the 220 service.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

1503 posts in 1223 days


#14 posted 11-23-2016 05:33 PM

You may also be able to just buy an extension cord for an RV that will work. They tend to be a little pricey but at least you will know it designed for outdoor use, running across the ground, where people might step on it.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

5990 posts in 2034 days


#15 posted 11-23-2016 05:41 PM

I’m not sure why I’d need “extra-hard” I had thought that was for higher voltage. Could you elaborate?
- prad

You don’t absolutely ‘need’ it… SOOW just means it has thicker jackets and can be subjected to more abuse than SJOOW… hence it’s rated for ‘extra hard service’ instead of just ‘hard service’. You also don’t absolutely need 4 wire cord if you are going to run strictly 240v, but having the capability for future use might be something to think about. You are making an extension cord – might as well make it as robust and flexible as possible :) Just some stuff to consider.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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