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Failed glue up.

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Forum topic by DirtyMike posted 11-21-2016 03:44 PM 1425 views 0 times favorited 29 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DirtyMike

637 posts in 736 days


11-21-2016 03:44 PM

Hello all, just thought i would share a rather unpleasant experience while making a cutting board. Sorry no pics. last night I was making an end grain cutting board with walnut and maple, after squaring all the strips I started the glue up with titebond 3 and pipe clamps. After an hour i pulled it from the clamps and started cutting strips to make a checker board. I started to have the strips break apart at the joint, No strength at all. I proceeded to break more and before long it was a disaster. Glue coverage was adequate, clamping pressure was good and even, must be the glue? Yep, looks like it was a Little too cold in the shop last night and the glue just didn’t work. I did several test to verify this and it all pointed to glue being too cold. even though it was above the manufacturers temp, it didn’t like being cold. The joints are still failing this morning despite being in the house all night. anyone have anything similar happen?


29 replies so far

View mrbob's profile

mrbob

182 posts in 403 days


#1 posted 11-21-2016 03:57 PM

Doesn’t it tell you on the bottle wait 24 hours before stressing joints.

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atouchofoz

131 posts in 893 days


#2 posted 11-21-2016 03:58 PM

Yup! And not only does the glue not do what it is supposed to do when it is cold here in the high desert south west, neither did my band saw blade! It broke after it did about two rounds on the wheel. Then I went to use the quick setting glue stuff, and it was as hard as a rock! So I went to My scroll saw and it’s motor was very irregular. It would go fast then slow then stall. I finally figured something was telling me it was not going to be a good day in my little shop as I bounced around trying to finish or do ‘something’! I am sorry about your time spent being in failure. I certainly know how that feels, and then some. By the way, It was ONLY 42 degrees in the shop. Hump! And that isn’t even cold compared to other locations! ~Suzanne

-- Suzanne, A Touch Of O.Z.

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Ted78

319 posts in 1834 days


#3 posted 11-21-2016 04:02 PM

Yea, combination of being cold and not enough set time. I think the glue will set just fine in anything above freezing eventually, but the colder it is, the longer it takes.

-- Ted

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DirtyMike

637 posts in 736 days


#4 posted 11-21-2016 04:05 PM


Doesn t it tell you on the bottle wait 24 hours before stressing joints.

- mrbob

Yes sir it does, And normally I would have waited longer but i have a lot of orders to get done and needed the clamps. I have some test pieces in the clamps right now that will get the full 24.

View Dan's profile

Dan

643 posts in 1726 days


#5 posted 11-21-2016 04:29 PM

I’ve had the same thing happen recently. It was mid forties so the wood strips were at about that temperature. I keep the Titebond lll in the house so it was at room temperature when applied on to colder wood in the colder garage. After gluing it was brought into house to set overnight.

Two days later when I put it under pressure it failed completely. No torn out wood whatsoever.

-- Peace on Earth

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JBrow

1272 posts in 754 days


#6 posted 11-22-2016 03:13 AM

DirtyMike,

I have heard or read that if woodworking glue freezes it can spoil the glue. I am not sure whether it is true or the source of this problem. But, given the failures you are experiencing, buying some fresh glue and warming the lumber to 70 degrees or so (in the house), proceeding to glue-up in the cold garage and the when any dripping of glue has subsided (to keep a mess out of the house), moving the glue-up back from the garage into the house for curing would be my method for the next glue-up.

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DirtyMike

637 posts in 736 days


#7 posted 11-22-2016 03:34 AM

Very good advice Jbrow, I dont think we have cold enough weather in my area to freeze anything yet, but the glue was bad. my test pieces have been clamped 24 hours inside and still failed, the squeeze out on the contractors paper i put under my clamps is still wet. After researching my problem today i have found that many others have had similar problems with titebond 3 in colder conditions . The only problems i have ever had with glue ups have been with Tb3. So i bought a gallon super fresh TB 2. Good news is I just ordered a nice shop heater, told the wife I cant afford anymore downtime due to low temps. And everything works better at temp.

For any interested on how to read the titebond date code: A61023…. A= America 6=year 10=month 23= day

View mrbob's profile

mrbob

182 posts in 403 days


#8 posted 11-22-2016 03:42 AM



Very good advice Jbrow, I dont think we have cold enough weather in my area to freeze anything yet, but the glue was bad. my test pieces have been clamped 24 hours inside and still failed, the squeeze out on the contractors paper i put under my clamps is still wet. After researching my problem today i have found that many others have had similar problems with titebond 3 in colder conditions . The only problems i have ever had with glue ups have been with Tb3. So i bought a gallon super fresh TB 2. Good news is I just ordered a nice shop heater, told the wife I cant afford anymore downtime due to low temps. And everything works better at temp. For any interested on how to read the titebond date code: A61023…. A= America 6=year 10=month 23= day

- DirtyMike

FYI TiteBond 2 is water proof except for under water all the time applications.

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DirtyMike

637 posts in 736 days


#9 posted 11-22-2016 03:57 AM

Yes sir, I know it is not ideal for cutting boards and other kitchen utensils. I have had titebond 3 react to tannins and turn black and after this i just dont trust it.

View UncannyValleyWoods's profile

UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 1698 days


#10 posted 11-22-2016 01:54 PM


Yes sir it does, And normally I would have waited longer but i have a lot of orders to get done and needed the clamps. I have some test pieces in the clamps right now that will get the full 24.

- DirtyMike

So, ultimately, what you’ve decided is that you’d rather send cutting boards to people that will DEFINITELY fall apart instead of doing the job properly? What that means for the rest of us is that we are now going to run into even more people at craft fairs who say “I paid a lot of money for an end grain board made by someone in their garage before, and it just fell apart on me.” It’s really hard to stand there and argue with that. I mean, what do you say, “Oh, well mine are made better?” Customers don’t want to hear that. I mean, the whole point of making something by hand is the fact that it’s a quality product and not some Chinese mass produced piece of crap.

Do everyone a solid and wait 24 hours between glue ups. If you’ve got that many orders, go buy more clamps.

Sorry not sorry for this rant.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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splintergroup

1687 posts in 1056 days


#11 posted 11-22-2016 04:17 PM

I also live in the high desert and have experienced the same problem. This time of year I’ve learned to keep the shop temps up at night when gluing, don’t glue below 65 deg. and keep the glue in the house. Regular TB states it can handle several freezes, but I don’t trust that.

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DirtyMike

637 posts in 736 days


#12 posted 11-22-2016 05:04 PM

Yes sir it does, And normally I would have waited longer but i have a lot of orders to get done and needed the clamps. I have some test pieces in the clamps right now that will get the full 24.

- DirtyMike

So, ultimately, what you ve decided is that you d rather send cutting boards to people that will DEFINITELY fall apart instead of doing the job properly? What that means for the rest of us is that we are now going to run into even more people at craft fairs who say “I paid a lot of money for an end grain board made by someone in their garage before, and it just fell apart on me.” It s really hard to stand there and argue with that. I mean, what do you say, “Oh, well mine are made better?” Customers don t want to hear that. I mean, the whole point of making something by hand is the fact that it s a quality product and not some Chinese mass produced piece of crap.

Do everyone a solid and wait 24 hours between glue ups. If you ve got that many orders, go buy more clamps.

Sorry not sorry for this rant.

- UncannyValleyWoods

Kind of hard to decipher your point there, I read a lot of opinion. Glue up failed because of glue not clamp time. I proved that with a test afterward. I dont sell anything that will fail due to my construction/ design. If you would like to discuss the matter of my craftsmanship anymore pm me your address. I would love to talk to you in person.

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DirtyMike

637 posts in 736 days


#13 posted 11-22-2016 05:28 PM

Also I noticed that you had to repair one of your sold cutting boards due to moisture. Do you not seal your boards? You speak of quality heirloom cutting boards yet you sell cutting boards that have end grain glued to face grain? That joint will fail, since your boards are not properly sealed movement will cause that joint fail. But i bet its out of your warranty when it does.

- DirtyMike

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UncannyValleyWoods

542 posts in 1698 days


#14 posted 11-22-2016 06:49 PM


Also I noticed that you had to repair one of your sold cutting boards due to moisture. Do you not seal your boards? You speak of quality heirloom cutting boards yet you sell cutting boards that have end grain glued to face grain? That joint will fail, since your boards are not properly sealed movement will cause that joint fail. But i bet its out of your warranty when it does.

- DirtyMike

- DirtyMike

That’s right. And since it’s clear you can read, perhaps you noticed noticed the part about the customer leaving it in a puddle of standing water for days. Not much I can do about that.

Look lady, you posted an entire thread amazed that your glue up failed after you tried to cross cut after only an hour. The simple fact that you attempted this gives my comment all the merit it deserves. You basically said “Hey everyone, I’m trying to cut corners because I didn’t plan well enough in advance, and can you believe that shit is breaking down on me?”

Really dude. Don’t cut corners. Leave it to cure in the clamps for 24 hours.

-- “If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.” ― Lenny Bruce

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diverlloyd

2328 posts in 1691 days


#15 posted 11-22-2016 07:11 PM

Leave them clamped for 24 hours and if you left the glue out it the cold it will ruin it. If it’s below 60 degrees outside then bring everything in and clamp it up inside.

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