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Advice on best method of achieving this look?

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Forum topic by SweetTea posted 11-12-2016 11:07 AM 1328 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


11-12-2016 11:07 AM

I have a job coming up for a customer/friend that is for 50+ cabinet doors. I am attempting to clone the door in this picture. I have a full shop setup with multiple shapers and all the necessary equipment. The doors will be made out of Alder with nothing but a clear coat and some black glaze.

My questions are:

1. Should I use water or oil based poly? I am not a big fan of lacquer. Have only used it a handful of times, and would be more comfortable with poly.

2. What kind of paint should I use for the glaze? Just regular black latex? Or is there a specific black glaze that works best?

3. What would be the best way to go about applying the glaze to achieve the look of the door in this pic? I was thinking, shoot a coat of poly then add the black glaze, then shoot another, final coat of poly. Then done. Does that sound reasonable?


19 replies so far

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1621 posts in 2646 days


#1 posted 11-12-2016 01:20 PM

okay okay….yesturday you seemed concerned about what cutters to use to obtain that door match

Today…. you inquire about how to match the finish on the tentative door job

your post states…you have a shop full of shapers and all necessary equipment yet you are unsure how to match that door.

Hahaha!

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2714 posts in 1318 days


#2 posted 11-12-2016 02:44 PM

I think you’re looking at a custom shaper bit.

If you’re replacing all the doors you could talk him out of it and go with a standard panel raiser. The feature doesn’t really add that much interest, but its a matter of taste.

No experience with glazing but I’ve seen it done and its never on raw wood.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#3 posted 11-12-2016 03:20 PM

I know which shaper cutters to use, I wasn’t asking because I have no knowledge of shapers or cutters, on the contrary I know a good bit about them. I was just hoping that someone could recognize what particular cutter was used to create that specific look. Perhaps a bit lazy on my part, as I eventually found the particular cutters that I need to make these doors. I was also hoping that someone would know the best place (price wise) to find them. I am ended up ordering the stile & rail cutters from MLCS.
The raised panel cutter I found in my collection of unused and forgotten cutters that I bought several years ago.

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SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#4 posted 11-12-2016 03:24 PM

However, this is the finishing forum so back on topic. :)

I have never done a clear coat only set of doors. 99% of everything I have done is either maple or poplar. I was thinking that I could do it like this, and I would like some opinions on whether or not you guys would do it like this…

I will sand the doors to 150g, then spray with an oil based poly. Let dry, sand lightly with 320g sandpaper then add glaze by paint brush and use a wet rag to work the glaze into the appropriate areas, then shoot another coat of oil based clear. Does that sound reasonable?

View jbay's profile

jbay

1857 posts in 736 days


#5 posted 11-12-2016 03:54 PM

I would seal the doors with a coat (or 2 depending) of pre cat lacquer. (lightly sand)
Spray paint the detail with cheap flat black rattle can spray paint.
Wipe off right away with mineral spirits.
Finish up with 2 final coats of pre cat lacquer.

Again, Why not outsource your doors?
How long will they take you to make? (ready for finish)
How much will material cost, including the scrap? Including mistakes, that You will pay for!
How much money can you make in the same time you would be making doors?
How much farther along would you be on finishing work, meaning getting paid sooner, and taking on more work?

In my opinion it doesn’t pay to make your own doors, but that’s just me.

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

976 posts in 429 days


#6 posted 11-13-2016 01:52 AM

why wouldnt you use shellac first with all the glazing mess. Then seal it again with shellac and put polyurethane over it. It is much more foolproof.

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

372 posts in 425 days


#7 posted 11-13-2016 02:47 AM

I’ll bet a lot of that ‘black stain’ is grime. Clean it with some degreaser & a brush and the stain should go away …

M

View cutmantom's profile

cutmantom

401 posts in 2872 days


#8 posted 11-13-2016 03:04 AM

Looks like it is stained to me, glazing I’ve seen done was the last step, applying liberally then wiping of leaving it in the nooks and crannies, can’t remember what it was though

View SweetTea's profile

SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#9 posted 11-13-2016 01:07 PM



I would seal the doors with a coat (or 2 depending) of pre cat lacquer. (lightly sand)
Spray paint the detail with cheap flat black rattle can spray paint.
Wipe off right away with mineral spirits.
Finish up with 2 final coats of pre cat lacquer.

Again, Why not outsource your doors?
How long will they take you to make? (ready for finish)
How much will material cost, including the scrap? Including mistakes, that You will pay for!
How much money can you make in the same time you would be making doors?
How much farther along would you be on finishing work, meaning getting paid sooner, and taking on more work?

In my opinion it doesn t pay to make your own doors, but that s just me.

I will consider using pre cat lacquer. I don’t normally use lacquer, my normal go to clear coat is water borne poly. I do like the fact that lacquer dries so fast. Although this time around I am considering using oil based poly. I am going to be spraying these doors with an airless sprayer. Not the best method of application but it’s what I have at the moment.

As far as outsourcing the doors, no need to do that. I have all of the necessary equipment in my shop to easily handle the job. I have three shapers, planner, drum sander, edge sander, router tables with 3.25HP routers, and a host of other big heavy machines. The main reason that I don’t outsource my doors, though, is that I thoroughly enjoy making them.

- jbay


View SweetTea's profile

SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#10 posted 11-13-2016 01:11 PM



why wouldnt you use shellac first with all the glazing mess. Then seal it again with shellac and put polyurethane over it. It is much more foolproof.

- Carloz

You have a point. I did this on the last job that I just got done with. I am going to be making some sample doors tomorrow that I will try different methods of achieving this look on. Will try the Zinnser clear seal coat shellec on the bare wood, followed by the glaze/black paint, followed by another coat of shellec then sprayed with either pre cat lacquer or oil based poly. Thanks for the advice buddy!

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SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#11 posted 11-13-2016 01:12 PM



I ll bet a lot of that black stain is grime. Clean it with some degreaser & a brush and the stain should go away …

M

- Madmark2

This door is perfectly clean. It’s almost brand new from another cabinet shop.

View SweetTea's profile

SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#12 posted 11-13-2016 01:15 PM

Now the only thing that I am questioning is…

What should I use for the black glaze? Just standard flat black latex paint? Or is there a company that makes an actual glaze product meant for this purpose?

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

1176 posts in 1635 days


#13 posted 11-13-2016 09:09 PM

No you can’t use latex paint silly goose.
It’s going to be a pigment stain or NGR stain.
You might even be able to do a glaze.
Everyone has their secret recipes for finishing.I think your going to be on your own as far as specifics for matching the color.
My favorite clear top coat is water based laquer by General finish.Very forgiving stuff.
Good luck

Aj

-- Aj

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SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#14 posted 11-14-2016 12:03 PM



No you can t use latex paint silly goose.
It s going to be a pigment stain or NGR stain.
You might even be able to do a glaze.
Everyone has their secret recipes for finishing.I think your going to be on your own as far as specifics for matching the color.
My favorite clear top coat is water based laquer by General finish.Very forgiving stuff.
Good luck

Aj

- Aj2

Thanks for the advice AJ2. Everyone that I have spoken to about this “look” is telling me to use flat black latex paint. Apply by brush or rag then wipe it off and sort of work it into the appropriate areas with the rag.

Your suggestion on using a pigmented stain or an NGR stain is something that I will definitely do some more research on. I have little knowledge on this area, but from my understanding, this application that I am trying to achieve might be a good place for a pigmented dye stain. Especially considering that pigmented dye stains do not penetrate the woods pores. It sort of just rest on the surface, so long as it has something to hold onto.

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SweetTea

245 posts in 497 days


#15 posted 11-14-2016 12:06 PM

And with that in mind I could probably spray these doors with pre cat lacquer, (or shellec) and use a pigmented dye stain in the same manor as mentioned above. That is, apply it with a brush or cup gun then use a rag to wipe off and work the pigmented dye stain down into the appropriate areas with the rag. Does that sound like a good option, as opposed to using flat black latex paint? lol

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