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Veneer staining after gluing

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Forum topic by rwe2156 posted 10-22-2016 01:18 PM 1031 views 0 times favorited 37 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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rwe2156

2716 posts in 1319 days


10-22-2016 01:18 PM

Only one of the drawer fronts came out like this.
The streaks are actually grey in color.

I’m thinking the glue bled through but what do you all think?
I used Titebond Cold Press Glue.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!


37 replies so far

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JBrow

1274 posts in 759 days


#1 posted 10-22-2016 02:05 PM

rwe2156,

Since I have no veneering experience and have not used Titebond Cold Press glue, I cannot say whether it is glue, something else, or glue bleed through in combination with something else. For what it is worth, it seems to me…

It appears the veneer has some cracks, similar to checks, radiating out from the center of the swirl grain pattern and parallel to the grain. If so, then an easy path for migration of the glue is available. That leaves me wonder whether a small amount of glue may have made contact with some fine grim and dirt that may have been on the clamping caul. When the caul was removed, the dirt remained behind. The gray color is reminiscent of the grim I sometimes observe on MDF in the home center. If so, then perhaps the gray color is on the surface and does not penetrate the veneer.

If a little sanding makes no difference, then I would think it is veneer saturated with cured glue. The swirl grain suggests to me that a knot or other feature was present in the log as the veneer was peeled away. If so, the vessels that conduct water up and down the tree could be angled toward (rather than parallel to) the surface of the veneer, offering a path for some glue migration. If it is bleed through, then the gray color is either the color of the cured glue or the product of a reaction of the glue with chemicals in the wood.

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jbay

1857 posts in 738 days


#2 posted 10-22-2016 02:20 PM

What kind of veneer? paper backed, wood on wood, natural?
It sort of looks to me like the veneer was thinner in that spot and the backing is showing through.
or, it looks like it could have been sanded to much from the top.
Did it not show any of that before you started?

-- If anyone would like to see my Portfolio, PM me and I would be glad to send you the link.

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shipwright

7781 posts in 2637 days


#3 posted 10-22-2016 03:06 PM

I only glue veneer with hide glue but it looks like you may have over sanded.
Was it like this right off the bat or only after sanding?
Raw veneer or backed?
Vacuum bagged or clamps?
More info will help us help you. :-)

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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rwe2156

2716 posts in 1319 days


#4 posted 10-23-2016 01:23 AM

Plain veneer. It was there right from the start.

Pic was taken after some scraping which made it worse.

I used clamps.

It is a figured cherry veneer. It was the only one that did this.

I’m thinking what Jbrow said might be what happened because I think I used too much glue.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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shipwright

7781 posts in 2637 days


#5 posted 10-23-2016 05:01 AM

Have you ever considered hide glue?
http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/5437

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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tomd

2122 posts in 3609 days


#6 posted 10-23-2016 05:59 AM

I use Titebond veneer glue and it looks like some may have bled through. I find you have to be very stingy with that glue.

-- Tom D

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rwe2156

2716 posts in 1319 days


#7 posted 10-23-2016 11:46 AM

Yes I was actually looking at hide glue but all I have is titbond and I wasn’t sure about it.. I’ve heard it helps to warm it up.

If that will work I will use it.

BTW the other day I happened to watch an episode of Tommy Mac he used standard yellow glue

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Lazyman

1506 posts in 1226 days


#8 posted 10-23-2016 02:47 PM

Thanks for sharing this. I’ve been experimenting with hide glue in preparation for applying some walnut veneer and it is pretty amazing stuff. This helps to convince me even more to not use PVA for the thin veneer I have. Another option (that shipwright recommended to me when I posted a question about glue and veneer) rather than the hide glue that takes more time to prep is Old Brown Glue which is a (more) shelf stable premixed liquid hide glue. Might be worth a look for your application.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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Loren

9633 posts in 3486 days


#9 posted 10-23-2016 06:39 PM

Unless you want to do it over or live with it as
is I suggest dry brushing with the flat acrylic
model paints sold for lead figurines. I’ve done
that and it can improve a situation.

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rwe2156

2716 posts in 1319 days


#10 posted 10-23-2016 09:24 PM

Thanks guys. I have a few scraps to practice with I think I will warm up that titebond hide glue and see how it works. But I gotta get this veneer off because I threw on some blo thinking the stain might not be so noticeable :-(

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View jumbojack's profile

jumbojack

1673 posts in 2463 days


#11 posted 10-24-2016 04:55 AM

I threw my Titebond Cold Press glue away for the very reason you have outlined. Bleed through. I do quite a bit of veneering. The liquid hide is better than the cold press but the hot hide is superior. The start up is a little steep but WELL worth it.

-- Made in America, with American made tools....Shopsmith

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shipwright

7781 posts in 2637 days


#12 posted 10-24-2016 06:19 AM

I veneer lots too and agree with jumbojack. Hot hide glue is my go to glue and there are lots of heat sources that won’t cost you a lot. Check the blog. There is a discussion on them in the second segment.
Also if you had used hide glue, it would be easy to remove the old piece.
I don’t think heating Titebond LHG is necessary. It is a liquid at room temp I believe and heating it will likely just make it really runny and hard to control. If you were using Old Brown Glue, my preferred LHG, you would heat it a little as it is a gel at room temperature but even with it warmer than required to liquefy it can make it way too runny.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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rwe2156

2716 posts in 1319 days


#13 posted 10-24-2016 12:18 PM

Appreciate the tips, Paul.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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rwe2156

2716 posts in 1319 days


#14 posted 10-24-2016 01:24 PM

Hey another question: the veneer is figured cherry looked pretty nice.

I noticed after a little scraping and sanding the figure doesn’t seem as prominent. I primer coat of BLO brought it back a little, but overall it it seems a “duller” than it was right out of the box.

Is there a certain way to smooth figured veneers for finishing?

Also, is there any advantage to backing vs. raw veneer? (I’m using unbacked veneer).

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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DrDirt

4414 posts in 3581 days


#15 posted 10-24-2016 01:34 PM

I prefer unbacked veneer

Did you happen to try wiping a bit of Oxalic Acid? If the blue/gray is some iron staining, it will go away.

I never had it with a ‘blotch’ like that but I made Cherry Shaker Boxes, and had a problem with ‘freckles’ after soaking and bending it. Tied to Iron in the water.

I get it at Ace Hardware, dissolve a teaspoon full into a 1/2 cuo of water andwet it… it will either fix it (watch it fade away in a few minutes) or it will do nothing and you only lose 10 minutes + the time for the wood to dry back out.

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

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