LumberJocks

Any thoughts on using Titebond lll for bent laminations?

  • Advertise with us

« back to Woodworking Skill Share forum

Forum topic by stefang posted 07-07-2010 03:58 PM 4130 views 3 times favorited 25 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View stefang's profile

stefang

13019 posts in 1986 days


07-07-2010 03:58 PM

I would like to try some bent lamination work, but I want to keep life simple for the time being, so I wonder how wellTitebond lll would suit the purpose. I am aware that there are different alternatives such as epoxy and other types of ‘mix’ glues, but I’m not sure if they can be purchased here in small affordable quantities. I realize that TB lll will leave a dark glue line on light woods. Another alternative ‘easy to get’ glue for me would be poyurethane, so if you have any experience with either I will appreciate your advice whether you have had good or bad experience with either of them.

I can get West System epoxy, but it costs about $100 for a fairly small amount. I would consider it though for high value projects.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.


25 replies so far

View a1Jim's profile (online now)

a1Jim

112082 posts in 2229 days


#1 posted 07-07-2010 04:11 PM

Hey Mike
Another alternative is white glue it drys clear and dries some what slower.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View richgreer's profile

richgreer

4524 posts in 1727 days


#2 posted 07-07-2010 04:28 PM

TB III works great for bent lamination. They claim the open time is 10 minutes (double the open time of TB II).

I’m sure I have never used the full 10 minutes, but with that much open time you don’t have to rush as much to get clamps in place or get everything set in a vacuum press.

One word of advice – - Use relatively fresh glue. If it has been on the shelf for a year or so after the bottle was opened, it looses much of its strength. Learned that one the hard way.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View a1Jim's profile (online now)

a1Jim

112082 posts in 2229 days


#3 posted 07-07-2010 04:36 PM

Hey Mike
Sorry I missed the point the glue you were asking about was for bent lamination’s. I have used resin glue it has a long open time and dries hard. A fellow that LJs a while ago that specializes in bent lamination’s said he bought Rue glue in 55 gallon drums an said it was great.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1279 posts in 2389 days


#4 posted 07-07-2010 05:47 PM

For bent lamination I recommend you only use urea glues (Unibond 800 for example) or west systems epoxy or other brand of epoxy glues for laminating. The reason is that these types of glue virtually eliminate any spring back and also do not have glue creep. These glues are the industry standard.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

View BritBoxmaker's profile

BritBoxmaker

4369 posts in 1689 days


#5 posted 07-07-2010 05:55 PM

Mike I’ve always had good results with ordinary white PVA glue, dries transparent.

-- Martyn -- Boxologist, Pattern Juggler and Candyman of the visually challenging. http://www.theartofboxes.com

View Scott Bryan's profile

Scott Bryan

27251 posts in 2474 days


#6 posted 07-07-2010 06:22 PM

Mike, if you look in my projects, you will see a bent lamination that I did with Gorilla glue. The glue lines sanded out and it has been used outdoors as a plant stand for several seasons. It still looks and works fine but is beginning to show some weathering since I made it out of construction lumber. I just wanted to use it as a prototype since I had never done a bent lamination before but “the boss” was happy with it so who am I to argue with her (I would lose anyway).

-- Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful- Joshua Marine

View David Kirtley's profile

David Kirtley

1281 posts in 1650 days


#7 posted 07-07-2010 07:11 PM

As far as holding, the Titebond III will do fine. The epoxy can be had for much less than $100 and it doesn’t take that much. I love System Three Gel Magic. They also sell it in a caulking tube type container that mixes while you squeeze and can get it for $18/US tube. Cool stuff. Besides, you should do fine getting glues. You are in Norway. They build boats there. :)

One more variable, you will actually have more time to get stuff set up and clamped with epoxy than you will have with Titebond III. Get a complex lamination going and that can be a real selling point. That stuff can get really slippery.

As far as the expense, measure it out. By the ounce, Polyurethane glues are generally more expensive than epoxy.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

View stefang's profile

stefang

13019 posts in 1986 days


#8 posted 07-07-2010 07:20 PM

Thanks for the help everyone. I see that I have some alternatives for immediate use and I will also do some research to see what else I can get over here. Meanwhile I want to give the TB lll a try as well, especially since Rich has had good luck with it. I’m not sure yet how much of this I will be doing. A lot of bent lamination is done here in Scandinavia for furniture and big outdoor projects too. So I assume they have the right types of glues here, but what I have to find out is whether they are available in the small quantities I would need. I don’t plan to build anything large unless there is a very substantial rise in sea levels.

I did a little experimental glue-up today just for fun using 1/32” thick X 1” wide pine strips and white PVA. I’m still not sure what I will be using bent laminations to build, but I’ve always found the technique fascinating and thought I should give it a go.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2328 days


#9 posted 07-07-2010 08:30 PM

Anything wrong with the plain old white PVA glue?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Div's profile

Div

1653 posts in 1593 days


#10 posted 07-07-2010 08:58 PM

Laminations done with PVA has a tendency to move after remove gradually after removal from the form, due to glue creep. I would only use PVA on bends with mimimal stress loading and are quick to assemble. As John Ormsby correctly states, all urea glues are good. Polyurethanes like Gorilla is excellent. We use urethanes all the time on a line of laminated chairs. Is cheaper for us than epoxy and gives us more working time wbich is important.( It is normally quite hot here, ambient temperature has huge effect on epoxy’s open time). Off course epoxy is also good for laminating.

If you want bulletproof, resorcinol is the best in my opinion. Downfall is dark glue line and it is a finicky glue with regards to temperature, clamping pressure, surface prep etc. Used it extensively when I was in the boatbuiding game.

Laminating is fun. Enjoy!!

-- Div @ the bottom end of Africa. "A woodworker's sharpest tool should be his mind."

View stefang's profile

stefang

13019 posts in 1986 days


#11 posted 07-07-2010 09:24 PM

Thanks Div.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

View Div's profile

Div

1653 posts in 1593 days


#12 posted 07-07-2010 10:04 PM

No problem, Mike. I do a lot of laminating, you are always welcome to PM me if you have specific queries.

-- Div @ the bottom end of Africa. "A woodworker's sharpest tool should be his mind."

View grizzman's profile

grizzman

7003 posts in 1956 days


#13 posted 07-08-2010 01:03 AM

hey mike…im feeling like a bent lamination today…what kind of glue should i use…or should i stand outside in the southern humidity and let is steam me back to a straight lamination…...lol….....i like a1jims suggestion…what are you going to glue up…...i can hear the wheels turning over there…....

-- GRIZZMAN ...[''''']

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14742 posts in 2328 days


#14 posted 07-08-2010 01:17 AM

What suggestion Grizz, the Rue glue? Maybe Larry, aka degoose, could send us some from down under? That is the only place I know that has rues:-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Edziu's profile

Edziu

150 posts in 1703 days


#15 posted 07-08-2010 01:53 AM

From personal experience and from the experience from colleagues, the unanimous decision is epoxy; I’m partial to West Systems. Let me go through some of the options and why I’ve stopped using them or have been told not to use them for bent lam-o’s.

1. Yellow glue (TB 1,2,3) as it’s been mentioned, glue creep and spring back- bad news. I have a piece of furniture that’s about three years old and it’s starting to show a little creep. I’m not happy. Also, relatively slow open time. When you use the yellow glue for bent lam-o’s, you have to work very quickly and the yellow glue does not allow the lam-o’s to slide past each other which they will want to to, as the outside of the curve is longer than the inside.

2. Urea-formaldehyde (Unibond) Works well, decent open time. I had a friend use this and it did not go well however due to the unibond being slightly old, like a year. We’ve sworn it off since then and won’t go back.

3. Epoxy (West Systems) Long open time, very long. You can add fillers for porous woods. The epoxy is good for a really long time (shelf life) It acts as a lubricant and lets things slide very well, this goes for joints like mortise and tenon where yellow glue would make things swell up and get sticky. Much less spring back. Get the pumps for it, and you can make just what you need, when you need it. There are lots of hardeners available, 205, 206, 207. These depend on your temperature and desired open time. Refer to their website for which one is good for you. If I were buying a set today I’d get the 105 Resin, the Slow hardener, and a container of cotton micro-fibers and a set of pumps, BUY THE PUMPS!!!! In the group A size, this would cost you about $90. Get the Group B size and you’re looking at like $160. It’s not just good for bent lam-o’s, its for all woodworking.

showing 1 through 15 of 25 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase