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Question about Sargent dado planes

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Forum topic by Sam posted 10-15-2016 01:48 PM 482 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Sam

14 posts in 395 days


10-15-2016 01:48 PM

Topic tags/keywords: sargent dado planes sargent plane types sargent plane dating

For the last few days, I’ve been searching the internet for information about Sargent dado planes (#32 thru #38). I’m familiar with what they are and how to use them (they’re very similar to the Stanley dado planes, only with more decorative filigree, and possibly some other minor differences), I’d just like to find a diagram, or the patent drawings, and also some detailed production information about these specific Sargent planes. I believe they were first made in either 1903 or 1911, but I could be wrong. I also believe that the first 2 types were made without the little grip at the toe, and with a different spur cutter setup, but again, I could be wrong about the specific types, and when the changes occurred. I have 3 (#36, #37, #38) without the little grip at the toe, that have wedged-in spur cutters, and I have 3 later production types (#32, #33, #34) that do feature the little grip, and that have the 3-sided spur cutters (exactly like the spur on a typical Stanley #78). Only 2 of mine are marked Sargent VBM, and the others are simply marked Sargent made in USA, with some variations on 2 of those. If anyone has any in-depth info, or knows where I can find any, on the production dates and changes to Sargent made dado planes, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

-- Sam, Pittsburgh PA


12 replies so far

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

13738 posts in 2086 days


#1 posted 10-16-2016 03:02 AM

Maybe Don W. Will see this and chime in. Or, find him at timetestedtools.com as our resident Sargent expert.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#2 posted 10-17-2016 12:20 AM

I don’t know if you’ll find in-depth info. The #32-#38 were made 1910 thru 1943. The VBM logo actually started about 1907, but was NOT put on planes until about 1910. On the #79 the finger rest came about after 1918. I would assume all others would be similar. A look into some earlier catalogs may give a clue. The circular spur was definitely later.

The fact that you have a complete set is pretty impressive. They are much harder to find than the Stanley’s.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Sam

14 posts in 395 days


#3 posted 10-21-2016 03:05 AM



I don t know if you ll find in-depth info. The #32-#38 were made 1910 thru 1943. The VBM logo actually started about 1907, but was NOT put on planes until about 1910. On the #79 the finger rest came about after 1918. I would assume all others would be similar. A look into some earlier catalogs may give a clue. The circular spur was definitely later.

The fact that you have a complete set is pretty impressive. They are much harder to find than the Stanley s.

- Don W

Thanks for the info. I’m still trying to find out a bit more, but as you stated, there doesn’t seem to be a wealth of information to be found. I just acquired these planes at the MWTCA NAtional Fall Meeting in Louisville, KY, and I’m thinking about making a box for them, with some historic information, or maybe catalog photos/advertisements, but all I can find is one catalog photo, of the type with the spur knickers and thumb-grip.

Here are a some pics, just for the heck of it. I was amazed to find these planes in such great condition. They’re all complete too:

-- Sam, Pittsburgh PA

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#4 posted 10-21-2016 11:07 AM

A very nice collection!

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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CampD

1475 posts in 2954 days


#5 posted 10-21-2016 12:38 PM

Sweet set!

-- Doug...

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Sam

14 posts in 395 days


#6 posted 10-22-2016 02:26 PM

I appreciate the nice comments. To Don W: I just realized that some of the info i had found on Sargent Dado Planes was from your site, Time Tested Tools. I had been looking at that site, and have in the past as well, but I didn’t realize who’s site it was. It’s very informative, and I used your restoration tutorials as a reference when I began buying old planes at garage sales, etc. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge.

Unfortunately, It turns out that I’m not going to be able to keep my Dado Planes, because after thinking about the large amount of money I impulsively spent to buy them, I realized that I really can’t afford it. I love woodworking, but it’s an expensive hobby, and I can continue to cut my dadoes with a saw, chisel, and router plane. I’ve had planes break after falling from my bench too, and if that happened to one of these Sargent Dado Planes, I would be devastated. If I had more money, I’d simply display them, but I actually need other tools, so I’ve decided to sell the Dado planes so that I can buy quite a few tools i actually need.

I hate to admit this other factor involved in my decision, but I will: my wife. She wasn’t happy when she saw how much I spent on my little trip to the MWTCA fall meeting in KY. In addition to the Sargent planes, I also went a little crazy during the auction. I basically spent my entire year’s tool budget – more actually – on tools i don’t really need.

The only reason I’m sharing all this info is, because, as I was creating listings for my dado planes, I used one of the catalogue illustrations that are shown on Time Tested Tools. Don: if it’s not ok for me to have used a catalogue photo I found on your site, I will remove it before posting my listings. I haven’t actually posted them yet because I’m procrastinating – it breaks my heart to do it. But I am going to list them, and the 1926 Sargent Catalogue, page 28 (I think), on your site was going to be included in my description. If I had made the connection between you and Time Tested Tools, I would have asked sooner, but apparently I don’t pay enough attention to what’s right in front of my eyes.

Thanks again, Don, for the wealth of knowledge you share on your site. It is very appreciated.

-- Sam, Pittsburgh PA

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#7 posted 10-22-2016 05:28 PM

You’re welcome to use anything on my site. That’s why it’s there.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Tim

3119 posts in 1429 days


#8 posted 10-23-2016 02:16 PM

It’s too bad you can’t keep them, they are in impressively good shape. I can’t say I could justify a lot of money on them right now either though.

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Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#9 posted 10-23-2016 04:29 PM

I sent you a message. I’d be interested to know what kind of price we’re talking about. I’d definitely interested. Being able to afford them may be a different story, but Xmas is coming.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Ripper70

188 posts in 376 days


#10 posted 10-30-2016 06:36 PM

Sorry to hear that you’re needing to sell your beautiful set of planes. It’s a shame you won’t be able to hold on to them. I’ve been watching the action on eBay just out of curiosity (not that I could afford to add them to my tool collection). It seems as if there are 2 or 3 buyers that are jockeying for position on most all of them and I hope, if my intuition is correct, that there will be a last minute flurry of competing bids that comes in and pushes the prices considerably higher. Any buyer that’s attempting to grab a complete set like you’re offering will be forced to maximize their bids to ensure they get them all and not break up the set.

I don’t know if you did that intentionally but, if not, I think it will work decisively in your favor. Best of luck.

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

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Sam

14 posts in 395 days


#11 posted 10-30-2016 11:29 PM



Sorry to hear that you re needing to sell your beautiful set of planes. It s a shame you won t be able to hold on to them. I ve been watching the action on eBay just out of curiosity (not that I could afford to add them to my tool collection). It seems as if there are 2 or 3 buyers that are jockeying for position on most all of them and I hope, if my intuition is correct, that there will be a last minute flurry of competing bids that comes in and pushes the prices considerably higher. Any buyer that s attempting to grab a complete set like you re offering will be forced to maximize their bids to ensure they get them all and not break up the set.

I don t know if you did that intentionally but, if not, I think it will work decisively in your favor. Best of luck.

- Ripper70

Thanks for your good luck wishes. I didn’t really have any particular strategy in mind when I listed them, I just tried to list them in order, starting with the #32, and ending them at an interval of a few minutes each. That didn’t really work exactly as planned though, because eBay rejected one of the listings, and I had to revise it and squeeze it back in (if you looked at the auctions you may have noticed that they’re a little out of order). I did notice a few of the same bidders on the auctions, and I think that’s probably good. I don’t really expect to make a profit, but it would sure be nice to at least recoup what I spent. And I would really like these planes to go to a good, loving home.

These Sargent planes, though beautiful, were a major impulse buy (because I REALLY wanted them), but I was out of town, away from home and family, and intoxicated with the thousands of old tools – from the ordinary to the extraordinary and everything in between – spread out on row after row of tables as far the eye could see! It was a case of temporary insanity. But once I got back home – and back to reality – I realized that I had gone a little too far. (I did get some other tools though, so I’m still happy to have some nice user tools that I actually need.)

Ultimately, I guess I just wasn’t ready for the responsibility of caring for 6 Sargent dado planes. I hope they can now find forever homes where they’ll be properly loved and cared for. Maybe they’ll even get to stay together! It’s always sad to see siblings separated from one another when an irresponsible parent flakes out, so I hope they do go to the same home. Maybe their new owner will even someday find their 7th sibling – No. 35 – and they can finally be a complete family again! But that’s probably just wishful thinking; I know deep down that they’ll probably get scattered to the wind. Oh how I have failed my little dado planes. :)

-- Sam, Pittsburgh PA

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Ripper70

188 posts in 376 days


#12 posted 11-01-2016 12:44 AM

Maybe they’ll even get to stay together!

- Sam

Looks like you got your wish. Hope you made some profit for your troubles. Glad to see someone stepped up and grabbed them all! Lucky devil!

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

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