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Forum topic by LoyalAppleGeek posted 10-07-2016 09:45 AM 828 views 0 times favorited 7 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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LoyalAppleGeek

122 posts in 362 days


10-07-2016 09:45 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question dust collection clear view vacuume shop cyclone vac cv06

Greetings and salutations LumberJocks!

Within 6 months, I will be purchasing a CV06 Mini dust separator from Clear View Cyclones. I’ve decided on a Ridgid WD1450 6HP Shop Vac for the suction source… At least, for now :-) I can’t find a clear answer on what the difference between shop vacs and dust extractors is, aside from dust extractors come with HEPA filters built in and cost considerably more. My setup will exhaust outside, so I don’t need super anti-demise-causing filters. What are the other differences?

I can’t afford over $100 after the CV06, so options under that price margin are ideal unless one is so incredible it’s worth selling the truck over :-)

Thanks everyone!


7 replies so far

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JBrow

822 posts in 388 days


#1 posted 10-07-2016 02:30 PM

LoyalAppleGeek,

Not sure of the difference between a shop vac and a dust extractor, I looked at a review of dust extractors (http://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/corded/specialty/dust-extractors-shootout/8021/) and compared the features to those of my 1980s Craftsman shop vac. My conclusion is that dust extractors offer more features that the shop vac.

Superior filtration seems standard on dust extractors, evidently to meet Federal EPA (EPA Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) program) and OSHA rules. The dust extractors offer not only HEPA filtration but a means that helps keep the filter from clogging. The dust extractors feature the ability to actuate the extractor while a dust producing tool is attached. The DeWalt also offers the ability to increase or decrease suction. Some (maybe most or all) are quieter than a shop vac.

I would think that if you are a pro and go into people’s homes and do dusty work, a dust extractor would be a worthwhile upgrade. But if you only make dust in your shop I would think that the CV06 Mini dust separator and your Ridgid shop vac is all that is required. A HEPA filter upgrade would allow you to avoid the hassle of exhausting the shop vac to the outdoors and providing for make-up air.

A couple of years ago I upgraded the Craftsman shop vac by adding Oneida’s Dust Deputy and a HEPA filter from CleanStream for about $35. The cyclone has made a huge difference allowing me to go 6 months or longer before needing to clean the HEPA filter. One note is that I my case I found it convenient to build a cart on which the shop vac and cyclone set so that I could wheel the cart around the shop without damaging the cyclone. I like to yank of the vacuum hose to move the shop vac around.

CleanStream…

http://www.cleanstream.com/products/whycleanstream.html?xcmp=ijcwcs15&skwcid=TC|17888|cleanstream%20filters||S|b|11852002002

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LoyalAppleGeek

122 posts in 362 days


#2 posted 10-07-2016 06:09 PM

Thanks for that reply Jbrow! That was certainly helpful. I’ll be purchasing the entire CV06 kit, which includes hoses, adapters, bucket and a cart with casters for the cyclone to attach to the existing shop vac with. This is an in shop thing only unless I need it for fall cleaning, and I hope the house isn’t as much as a mess as in here. Even if I do need to vent inside the shop, I ware a 3M 6503QL Resporator at all times, so that would be acceptable. BTW, I highly recommend that Resporator, the particulate filters last 6 months of frequent use, or more if dust collection I’d being used. The Resporator can be opened for talking, drinking, eating, etc, without removing it from your head.

One other question I had is regarding suction strength. I’ve seen many machines with the title of dust extractor that are half the horsepower of the higher end shop vac. I’ve read some confusing information regarding the volume of air vs air speed between the two. I’ll need to provide suction to two large baffles, one behind the miter saw and the other behind the radial arm saw. Will a 6HP shop vac be able to handle that?

Thanks again!

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JBrow

822 posts in 388 days


#3 posted 10-08-2016 02:36 PM

LoyalAppleGeek,

The horsepower rating of a shop vac or dust extractor does not provide much information. Manufacturers seem to like to promote their products using this measure of work. As a result this becomes a marketing tool and since there are several ways to arrive at horsepower, it may be useless in determining which machine will move more air. The quieter machines may use what may be more expensive direct motors rather than an alternating current motor. This could make comparing machine performance by horsepower even more difficult. Lastly, the efficient transfer of motor power into moving air can vary from one machine to another.

Dust Collection Basics, published by Woodstock International, claims that the volume of air that must be moved for good dust collection for the radial arm saw is 350 CFM minute. They provided no recommendation for mitre saw, although I suspect the requirements are similar. The volume of moving air by itself is insufficient for good collection. A good dust collecting baffle design at the machine, that focuses moving air where the debris is thrown, is also important.

I am not sure whether your Ridgid shop vac or a dust extractor will perform as well as you would like at the radial arm or mitre saw. If you can find room in your shop and in your budget, a dust collector would likely collect more debris at these machines than a shop vac or dust extractor. I am sure that if you use a shop vac or dust extractor to collect dust at the radial arm and mitre saw, some dust will be captured. I am just unsure how much.

Even with very good dust collection, wearing an effective and comfortable N95 particle mask is a good idea. I use the disposable 3M masks and find that they clog quickly from moisture and therefore wear the mask less than I should. I will give the 3M mask you mentioned a look. It sounds like your mask offers some nice features and the replacement filters have to cost less than disposable masks.

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LoyalAppleGeek

122 posts in 362 days


#4 posted 10-08-2016 04:07 PM

The industries constant use of empty marketing claims is starting to get on my nerves, they do it with lumen ratings on flashlights as well. As you can probably tell, dust collection is not my area of expertise even though it’s been my job to do the vacuuming since I was 7 :-). I may not have made it clear before, but I have yet to purchase a shop vac so am open to recommendations and extremely grateful for the information I’m getting before shelling out $100. I don’t have the real estate for a central dust collector, so the best shop vac is my only option. I’m not sure there are any dust extractors under $100, but if you know of one, let me know :-)

I use the 2071 particulate filters, and got both them and the Resporator from Amazon. The 2071s are the cheapest by far as they don’t offer nuisance level vapor relief, but won’t come up in search unless you type their number in directly. The added advantage is you can keep a set of gas cartridges on hand for whenever the need to filter fumes arises.

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JBrow

822 posts in 388 days


#5 posted 10-08-2016 06:59 PM

LoyalAppleGeek,

I am not convinced that a dust extractor offers the best value. These machines are expensive and seem to be designed for a job site and not a wood working shop. A 6.5 hp shop vac ($150) + Dust Deputy (at $100 it is about $50 less that the Clear Vue model) + Cleanstream HEPA filter ($35) would give you good general clean-up capability and some dust collection (probably poor to mediocre performance for you saws).

Your alternative could be to forgo the shop vac solution and opt for a portable dust collector instead. You may find the space for a portable dust collector since I suspect that if properly configured it could take up about the same amount of space as the shop vac solution. I would think the portable dust collector would provide far better dust collecting performance than the shop vac or dust extractor since it is designed to move about 3X the volume of air of the shop vac or dust extractor. But like the shop vac solution, adding a cyclone separator and a HEPA filter would keep the filter cleaner longer and remove smaller dust particles from the air. It should yield better results at the radial arm saw and the mitre saw. I would guess that the cost of a portable dust collector, cyclone, and filter upgrade would approach or somewhat exceed the price of a dust extractor, which tend to cost in the $500 – $600 range.

Here is an example of a portable dust collector I have in mind. A little web digging would probably turn up a few more…

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product200577705200577705?cmmmc=Google-pla&utmsource=GooglePLA&utmmedium=Power%20Tools%20%3E%20Woodworking&utmcampaign=Air%20Foxx&utmcontent=29033&gclid=CNWLwIThy88CFQ8waQodcpQOZA

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LoyalAppleGeek

122 posts in 362 days


#6 posted 10-09-2016 03:18 AM

JBrow,

Thanks again! I’m getting a much better understanding of the world of dust collection. When I looked at that link you provided, Matthias Wandel’s shop built dust collector came to mind. At first I thought the somewhat low price of a $30 shop vac pared with the CV06 would be more effective, but I was completely unversed on the topic. Now, after much research and your incredibly helpful input as well as realizing the cost required to get the performance I’m going for, I’m thinking the shop built dust collector may be a very good option. The cost of a 1 HP table saw motor to power it is about the same as the shop vac, but with like you stated, 3X the air flow. His design is relatively compact, and the design would allow me to configure it vertically like a miniature CV1800, saving a lot of floor space.

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JBrow

822 posts in 388 days


#7 posted 10-09-2016 01:08 PM

LoyalAppleGeek,

Matthias Wandel is a very creative and thoughtful young man. Considering his methods for your dust collector can give you a lot of performance from a compact unit.

Before you get started, you may find these books very helpful. It has been a while since I looked at these references but if memory serves me well, one or maybe both discuss the full range of dust collection, from the shop vac to much larger units. They also get into machine pickup designs. I bought them used on Amazon a couple of years ago and, given your inexperience with dust collection, I highly recommend them…

Controlling Dust In The Workshop by Rick Peters ($8) and Woodshop Dust Control: A Complete Guide to Setting Up Your Own System by Sandor Nagyszalanczy ($9).

The time will come when you may need some flex hose. I went with polyurethane and PVC flex hose; both offer smooth interior walls for better performance and have been durable. I found the PVC hose more flexible and easier to cut than the more expensive polyurethane. The polyurethane is pretty stiff and seems to have a memory and has a steel reinforcing wire that is tough to cut. I found both on Amazon at competitive prices. Here is the description of these two hoses…

Flex-Tube PV PVC Duct Hose, Clear, 4” ID, 0.032” Wall, 25’ Length, Sold by: Amazon.com LLC, $92.88

Flex-Tube PU Polyurethane Duct Hose, Clear, 4” ID, 0.033” Wall, 25’ Length, Sold by: Amazon.com LLC, $168.86

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