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System Three Spar Varnish Failure

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Forum topic by CharlesNeil posted 10-04-2016 03:56 PM 1764 views 0 times favorited 86 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3338 days


10-04-2016 03:56 PM

86 replies so far

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Joe Lyddon

9451 posts in 3520 days


#1 posted 10-04-2016 05:08 PM

Charles, thank you very much for your Review and information!

I recently finished a hand carved Sign for a cousin… originally planned to be Outside… Located in Paradise, CA… Northern Calif. about 50 miles North of Sacramento, near Chico.

I used a Penetrating Epoxy to really protect Live edges… Followed by a satin marine spar varnish… Looks great!
The varnish was done for the extra UV protection as you described.

They have not mounted it outside… are just enjoying it INSIDE in their living room.

I have just informed them… along with your video… In short, my message to them was…
“If I were you, I would keep on enjoying it Inside and NOT Outside.”

The crazy thing… I studied hard to be sure I got the Best Exterior finish possible… The Penetrating Epoxy initial treatment WAS, I feel, a good step. Without it, I’m sure some of the edges would not have lasted over the years.

Funny… my very first thought of Finishing it was a few coats of BLO where it could be easily refreshed over the years to make it look again… LOL

Thank you very much for your Review… I needed that!

Joe

I will eventually post this sign as a Project…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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eddie

8443 posts in 2081 days


#2 posted 10-04-2016 05:35 PM

Charles thanks for the heads up, this is almost as bad as the wood for humidifier boxes you had to deal with a ways back , down here we deal with it a lot of these issues in Louisiana , i just use cypress as much as i can and tell customers bleach it every now and then but then im also just a small shop , , those are some great looking chaires do you have a cd or blog on them ,if a politician tell me something im not going to wait for it , :)

-- Jesus Is Alright with me

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3338 days


#3 posted 10-04-2016 05:39 PM

Sorry Eddie, I didnt do a video on the,chairs, the client is an arts and craft fan, so we kinda designed one similar to a Morris chair.

BTW Guys I do have to say all the walnut plugs were glued in with Tightbond III , I was scared to death we were going to have to TRY to drill out all those plugs and start over, but none failed Thankfully

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DocSavage45

7708 posts in 2310 days


#4 posted 10-04-2016 07:15 PM

Charles,

Wow! That’s a kick in your tush! Would a lye bath like we used to strip whole pieces of furniture work here?

-- Cau Haus Designs, Thomas J. Tieffenbacher

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3338 days


#5 posted 10-04-2016 07:25 PM

We are having the pieces professionally stripped, and its not touching the mold, thus far the bleach, which actually is pool “shock it” mixed super strong, we power washed the pieces first and the mold is under the finish so where there was mold, ( look at the back in the video) , we were able to get it down to basically raw wood, then we bleached the @#$% out of it, then power washed again, to neutralize and then a bath with baking soda, now we are sanding our butts off,then a bath of Borax to kill the mold “roots” . We will let these dry super well and watch for any mold to return.

BTW, power washing wood isnt a real good idea, but this was white oak, and its hard and dense , and while we have alot of grain raising, it was done as a last resort”

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distrbd

2228 posts in 1914 days


#6 posted 10-04-2016 08:01 PM

That spar finish should not be on the market period.I doubt they’ll change the direction on the label one bit , with all the extra steps you mentioned, no one’s going to buy such product and let’s not forget, the application process is to be repeated yearly, wow.

-- Ken from Ontario, Canada

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3338 days


#7 posted 10-04-2016 08:11 PM

Distrbd,
Man I havent done anything, I still sanding and treating, 30 some odd pieces, its going to take a while. I plan to let these things dry for a month or 2 and watch for any signs of more mold, If so, I start over.

Guys transport from Vermont to here in Va is 4400.00 alone then getting them stripped another 38 to 4k or so, then we have to deal with the mold,and all the sanding and prep for whatever finish we decide to use, and if the mold re-appears, its start over, I have to stand behind my products.

This hurt … Sys3 , refused to pay anything

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Joe Lyddon

9451 posts in 3520 days


#8 posted 10-04-2016 08:43 PM

So much for System 3…

If they cannot stand behind their products, why should we take the chance by BUYING them?!

I will NOT BUY System 3 stuff ever again… There are others…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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DocSavage45

7708 posts in 2310 days


#9 posted 10-04-2016 09:57 PM

Charles I watched the guys on this old house power wash before painting. Bought a power washer waaay Baack and found out what an happen to siding on my house. One time learning on that one!

Is there anyway to have insurance coverage or is that too expensive?

-- Cau Haus Designs, Thomas J. Tieffenbacher

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doubleDD

5251 posts in 1511 days


#10 posted 10-05-2016 12:37 AM

Now I see and understand how involved you are on this issue. At least mine wasn’t a finished product. If it wasn’t for the challenge of figuring this one out, I’m sure it would be cheaper to rebuild all the chairs.

-- Dave, Downers Grove, Il. -------- When you run out of ideas, start building your dreams.

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Roger

19886 posts in 2271 days


#11 posted 10-05-2016 12:39 AM

Wow! What a mess. Hope they’ll help you get them fixed up

-- Roger from KY. Work/Play/Travel Safe. Keep your dust collector fed. Kentuk55@yahoo.com

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Desert_Woodworker

385 posts in 682 days


#12 posted 10-05-2016 02:46 AM

Thank you for sharing your experience; for me, there is nothing worse than a “coating” failure on your project. When this happens most will points fingers- but when this happens to me I know that there is a reason, for the failure. Sure I get angry but sometimes it is my fault but other times theirs. I looked into “white Oak for outdoor furniture” and found this company that makes and sells outdoor white oak furniture, for it may be, of interest to some. https://www.sittineasy.com/ Currently, I am doing a test on Padauk, to prevent UV sun damage, by comparing 3 products on a test board- in 1 months time, one product is starting to “change” the other 2 are holding up (outdoors in AZ western exposure”) I will post a review January 2017. Mr Neil, as a business man to another, thanks for the “heads up” on mold and may I respectfully suggest that you cover them with Zinzer Stain kill, then paint them. You could call them “Charles Neil limited edition Summer chair”. Coatings, coatings and coatings ….

-- Desert_Woodworker

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canadianchips

2361 posts in 2464 days


#13 posted 10-05-2016 03:09 AM

Sorry to see the failure of finish.
Back in late seventies when Vans were popular I made running boards, flares, visor, bumper push bar, ladder and roof rack all out out OAK. Use a marine varnish, Looked nice …......first year. I could not keep a finish on it. Sun, water all took their toll. I finally removed them and made metal.
Iwas hoping in 40 years there would be a exterior finish for wood that lasts. I guess not yet !
Thankyou for making the video, always good to watch.

-- "My mission in life - make everyone smile !"

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Desert_Woodworker

385 posts in 682 days


#14 posted 10-05-2016 03:23 AM

I submitted a question to system 3 – https://support.systemthree.com/hc/en-us?return_to=%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Frequests asking about a mold problem-
“Charles Neil (if you do not know who he is, then plase disregard my question) is posting that he is fustrated with your product, with no resolution. ( see Lumberjocks forum- ) Q: why would mold form on his “white oak” chairs or any other wood? I had a similar experience with quarter sawn .25 red Oak veneer cabient door panels. Shorthly after coating ,with 4 coats of lacquer- the mold devil’s appeared! As a coating manfacturer can you offer advice to us woodworkers. I will respectfully post your answer if it enlightens fellow woodworkers?—-” Woodworkers this should be an issue about “coatings”

-- Desert_Woodworker

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Monte Pittman

22050 posts in 1806 days


#15 posted 10-05-2016 03:55 AM

Thanks for the info. I tried System 3 about a year ago and couldn’t really see much benefit over what I was doing.

-- Mother Nature created it, I just assemble it.

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