LumberJocks

What's causing this tear out? - Update: It's the arbor or flange

  • Advertise with us

« back to Woodworking Skill Share forum

Forum topic by lumberjuniorvarsity posted 10-03-2016 10:44 PM 876 views 1 time favorited 24 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View lumberjuniorvarsity's profile

lumberjuniorvarsity

66 posts in 363 days


10-03-2016 10:44 PM

Hi Everyone,

On the last two end grain cutting boards I’ve made, I have been getting some tear out while doing my second set of cuts. This has been problematic because the tear out is on the surface that mates to another strip, creating small voids in my joints when I do the final glue-up.

After I noticed it the first time I cleaned the blade, which made my blade look nice but didn’t help with the tear out. So I’m trying to figure out how I can avoid this in the future. I have the Delta 36-725 with an Irwin Marples 50T Combination ATB+R blade. I also get a small amount of burning when making these cuts. The material here was 1 5/8” thick walnut.

I have tried making cuts both by using an Incra miter gauge, and also holding material against the fence. Both techniques resulted in tear out.

So is this due to an underpowered saw? Wrong blade for this application? Problem with alignment? Poor technique? Something else?

Sorry for the poor quality picture. Thanks for any advice!


24 replies so far

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4859 posts in 2281 days


#1 posted 10-03-2016 11:03 PM

Assuming that’s the bottom of the cut, I wonder if your tablesaw has a zero clearance insert?

A thin kerf blade, or one with less teeth will help with the burning issue.

I use a Freud LU86 thin kerf with good results… http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/7386

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View Drew's profile

Drew

304 posts in 2568 days


#2 posted 10-03-2016 11:04 PM

I assume you are crosscutting these with a table saw.
If so use a crosscut blade, not an Irwin combo blade, as well as a nice fresh zero clearance insert! The zero clearance is the most important part! A nice crosscut sled will also help to eliminate tear out.

Burning is an indication that your fence and blade are not parallel, or simply bad technique. If it is burning with a miter gauge it is most likely because your blade isn’t parallel with the miter slot

-- TruCraftFurniture.com

View lumberjuniorvarsity's profile

lumberjuniorvarsity

66 posts in 363 days


#3 posted 10-03-2016 11:20 PM



Assuming that s the bottom of the cut, I wonder if your tablesaw has a zero clearance insert?

- pintodeluxe

It’s actually the top of the cut. Forgot to mention that…

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

466 posts in 370 days


#4 posted 10-03-2016 11:30 PM

How much of your blade is sticking up past the cut?

View lumberjuniorvarsity's profile

lumberjuniorvarsity

66 posts in 363 days


#5 posted 10-03-2016 11:35 PM



How much of your blade is sticking up past the cut?

- DirtyMike

Not much. Maybe 1/4”.

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

466 posts in 370 days


#6 posted 10-03-2016 11:55 PM

I have the frued combo and have never had trouble with tear out and my old saw was extremely under powered. I would try raising your blade a little or putting masking tape on your lumber.

View pontic's profile

pontic

56 posts in 76 days


#7 posted 10-04-2016 01:38 AM

Try a scoring line where you are making the cut. This is what I do with thin veneered plywood. I use a utility knife and a straight edge. I usually just do the bottom side.

-- drpurvis@aol.com

View Greg's profile

Greg

312 posts in 2341 days


#8 posted 10-04-2016 02:42 AM

Can you tell when the tearout is happening-Can you see it as it’s happening? This is important when diagnosing the root cause. My guess is that it is the back of the blade, as it is coming up, is scraping against one side which points to an alignment issue. If you have a dial indicator you can place against your fence and touch to the front and then the back to ensure alignment to the blade, that would help. If you don’t have a dial indicator simply use a block of wood or metal as a feeler gauge.
Another issue that it could be his blade wobble. I am not familiar with the exact blade you are using but if you are seeing burns and your regular heavy saw marks on the end grain, it could be wobble. Wobble is caused by a blade that is too thin for the amount of feed speed you put on your workpiece. Slow down your feed speed(not to the point that it will burn), and speed/force consistency is absolutely key here. Try not to stop and start during the cut.

I also agree with the others that you could try putting masking tape over the cut line. Raising the blade a little bit higher might help as well, since the higher you go, the fewer the teeth inside the kerf building up heat from friction. Good luck!

-- You don't have a custom made heirloom fly fishing Net? http://www.Sierra-Nets.com

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

4247 posts in 1667 days


#9 posted 10-04-2016 02:52 AM

Correct use of a saw blade - from Freud

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View lumberjuniorvarsity's profile

lumberjuniorvarsity

66 posts in 363 days


#10 posted 10-04-2016 03:04 AM

Thanks for the replies, guys. I’ll double check the alignment, but unless it went out of alignment during the course of regular use I doubt I’ll get it better than when I set it up – not that it was perfect.

I also considered scoring the wood prior to cutting, but I’m doubtful that I wouldn’t just end up with a piece of wood that’s both scored (in the wrong place) and has tear out.

I like the masking tape idea. And the feed rate actually sounds like a likely culprit. Glad to know that it’s not inherently an issue of being underpowered. I really like my saw!

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

693 posts in 1266 days


#11 posted 10-04-2016 03:13 AM

If you really like making end grain boards.Think about getting a bandsaw.
So much waste with a table saw blade.
Jointer,Planer,bandsaw.Drumsander of belt sander.
That’s all.
And remember it’s a cutting board don’t make it too pretty or nobody will want to use it.
A beautiful board is well worn.
Aj

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

706 posts in 855 days


#12 posted 10-04-2016 04:54 AM

Does it chip out on both sides or just one side of the blade? I wonder if one of the teeth is out of alignment? Have you tried a different blade? Perhaps the stock blade that came with the saw?

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View jdh122's profile (online now)

jdh122

879 posts in 2285 days


#13 posted 10-04-2016 06:19 AM

Usually you expect tearout on the bottom rather than the top on a tablesaw. In that case a zero-clearance insert or sled will help, as will scoring cuts. But these won’t help with your issue.
I think that simply raising the blade might sold your problem.

-- Jeremy, in the Acadian forests

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

2406 posts in 1777 days


#14 posted 10-04-2016 08:50 AM

The first thing I’d do is play with your blade height. I have a bunch of saw blades and they all seem to have a “sweet spot? Meaning different blades work best at different heights.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View lumberjuniorvarsity's profile

lumberjuniorvarsity

66 posts in 363 days


#15 posted 10-04-2016 01:41 PM



Does it chip out on both sides or just one side of the blade? I wonder if one of the teeth is out of alignment? Have you tried a different blade? Perhaps the stock blade that came with the saw?

- Lazyman

Yeah, it only does that chip out on the left side of the blade, not the right. And not on the bottom, if I remember correctly.


If you really like making end grain boards.Think about getting a bandsaw.
So much waste with a table saw blade.
Aj

- Aj2

I would LOVE a bandsaw, and I’m definitely noticing the waste with all those repetitive cuts! In a future post I think I’m going to ask for advice about tool buying in conjunction with a move to AK (from CO). I’m going to sell my big tools, so I’ll be able to adjust what I own.

I think that simply raising the blade might sold your problem.

- jdh122


The first thing I d do is play with your blade height. I have a bunch of saw blades and they all seem to have a “sweet spot? Meaning different blades work best at different heights.

- AlaskaGuy

I like this and masking tape as first measures in solving the problem. Easy enough if it works!

Thanks everyone!

showing 1 through 15 of 24 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com