Table Saw Kickback

Ok, my picture doesn’t seem to work…any suggestions?

-- Do what you love, the money will follow --Marsha Sinetar

Did you upload your picture to Photobucket, flickr or other picture hosting site?

-- Martin, http://lumberjocks.com | My Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/people/Martin_Sojka/1357216976

ouch..
how easy it is to walk right into an accident waiting to happen.

-- "Functional WoodArt" by Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

I posted the picture at flickr. here’s the address:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22403008@N08/2158835390/

-- Do what you love, the money will follow --Marsha Sinetar

airfieldman,
I too am a safety professional (but in the oil and gas industry), and alot of times I am overly cautious just because of my job. I wouldn’t want anyone at work to find out that I wasn’t unsafe. Not that I would lose my job, but that I would be made fun of for quite some time.. We’re all like family there.

Alot of times at home though, complacency rears it’s ugly head. We all get complacent in the things that we do, just because we have always done them in a certain way, or that the safer way takes more time.

A good example of this is to ask yourself these questions:

At home, how many times have I worn fall protection (such as a lanyard and safety harness) when I was 6’ or more above the ground. We’ve all been up ladders on the sides of our houses, or on the roof putting up christmas decorations.

How many of you have worn shorts while cutting grass? It’s just too hot outside to wear pants…

Or cut grass without ‘safety glasses’ and side shields?

Or cut grass with your shirt off? (this may not pertain to everyone MsDebbie!)

All I can say is that I’ve been there/done that.

I have a friend at work, about 14 years ago, he was cutting some wood on a tablesaw. He didn’t have the guard on. The wood kicked back and struck him in the head. He became disoriented, and placed his hand on the tablesaw. He cut off his index finger and partially through his thumb. They reattached his thumb, but couldn’t save the finger. It was too mangled up. To this day, he won’t go anywhere near a table saw and he has limited use of his thumb.

The best approach I have found to working in the shop and being safe is to analyze the hazards prior to starting any work. I just take a couple of minutes to go over what I’ll be doing in the shop to identify any hazards that will be present, then make sure the appropriate protection is in place. It only takes a couple of seconds.

Sorry… I didn’t mean to hijack this thread.. Just made me start to think about safety in my shop..

-- Jamie, Kentucky

As an individual missing 1/8 of an inch of bone in my middle finger, I fully understand you. I have a piece of wood screwed to a very visible place in my shop as a reminder, with the date inscribed in it. There are not stupid accidents. After mine I follow a set of rules, and I do not deviate for any reason. But don’t be intimidated by the accident. My first project after the finger healed was a new set of push sticks.

-- Zipsss

First, I’m glad to hear that your accident was not any worse. The memento of the kicked-back piece will serve as a good reminder to carefully evaluate all shop operations that you contemplate in the future.

You did not give any details on exactly what you were doing but, it is probably worth exploring this a bit to potentially help others who may be inexperienced.

Looking at the piece in the picture and the fact that you said you were using your fence I would assume that you were trying to rip (i.e. not crosscut) the piece of wood. If that is the case, that was the real issue…trying to cut anything that small using the just the fence and no other specialty safety device (like the Grripper) is an accident waiting to happen (potentially much worse than a kickback). Something like that piece should be crosscut using the miter gauge without contacting or using the the fence. In general, I do not try to rip pieces that are less than about 16” in length – even then I use either a push stick or a Grripper to do so. Another rule of thumb is that you should never try to cut a piece using the fence where the shorter of the two dimensions is against the fence – this kind of a piece has the tendency to rotate away from the fence and into the blade causing kickback like you experienced – worse it could carry your hand into the blade as it does.

Please let us know the details of how this happened (as my account could be incorrect) so that others can better understand how to avoid such accidents.

-- Mark, Webster New York, Visit my website at http://thecraftsmanspath.com

Yup….I can still feel the pain. I consider myself very safe…just not very seasoned on power tools.

Mine was similar.
Mistake one. I bound a small wood block between the blade and fence.
It hit me in the chest at mach 5 after it bounced off my hand (luckily out of blades path). Disoriented? I couldn’t open my eyes for a few minutes and I was hopping around the room in pain.

Hmm that never happened before, I wonder what I did wrong…..

Mistake two. I did it again. Doh! Same results. Hit me in the same place….got some blood this time. My guess is the flesh was already “thin” from the first stike. LOL! A day later I looked like I took a softball to the chest. Took many months for the purple spot to go away.

Took about three months for me to build enough courage to touch that power switch again.

- hangs head in shame -

-Rocko

-- -> Malta, IL www.flickr.com/rockomccombs -<

One more note….I didn’t keep any souvenirs. I burned them.

My son did not get his handcrafted blocks from Dad…I bought some. It was much less painful.

-Rocko

-- -> Malta, IL www.flickr.com/rockomccombs -<

Ouch. Yes Ouch is a daily word for me, sometimes several times a day. I’v inherited this gift. I tend to muscle through things sometimes rather than stop and RELAX. Think it comes from sports. Not a good combo w wood and metal working. Lots of splinters slices bangs smash’s and a few shocks. Part of the game no matter how careful … But when it comes to table saws I happen to have respect and now take that time to put myself in check..

6 yrs ago, I picked up my buddy’s Index Finger , cup of ice and off to the hospital. Since i saw that, I try try my best to use push sticks, or some homemade jig contraption… Respect the horse power!

-- PJM.`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((º> why's there a light in fridge and not the freezer? , aka, the wood hunter.aka tigermaple5

Mark:

Thanks for the help. I posted this story for just this reason. As for rip/crosscut, that’s a difficult question. I was working with plywood and don’t really see the grain as a factor. That being said, I did have the short end against the fence. I now use that same block as a stop block on my fence when cutting in the same fassion. That way, the peice is aligned, but not bound. Plus, I’m in the process of building a sled.

One thing I’m interested in purchasing, if anyone has any suggestions, is an aftermarket kerf knife. The one that comes with the table works wonderfully, however is a tad challenging to swap in/out.

-- Do what you love, the money will follow --Marsha Sinetar

At least you didn’t get a piece of 2×4 in the chest, I have been very careful since but an occasional reminder is always great, it’s easy to get careless.

-- DocK, WV

I had a kickback about two weeks ago. Fortunately it missed. It was a good opportunity for me to refocus on the consequences of complacency.

-- Maplewood, MN

You post immediately caught my attention when it starts with “So there I was…” as they say the only difference between a fairy tale and a hanger story is one starts with “Once upon a time….” and the other starts as your’s did.

I too have been there and done that, mine was a hexagonally shaped piece of red cedar about an inch thick. Came across my thumb and into my stomach, it hurts every time I think about it! Funny thing was that I had just read some stuff on kickback and had never experienced it, next day – game over.

-- Dan in Central Oklahoma, Able to turn good wood into saw dust in the blink of an eye!

My favorite kickback story started at a local woodworking store. I was buying some new bits and heard a customer wanting to return the router table he purchased since it “didn’t work” and was “dangerous”. He explained that he was trying to make some long moldings and every time he put the wood to the bit, it shot off like a rocket and stuck in the wall like a spear.

My curiosity was aroused. How could that be. The sales man asked him to show how he set up the table. Most likely you have figured this out… yes … the inexperienced guy was trying to make his moldings by running the wood between the bit and the fence… He used his router to create a high speed javelin tosser… I still have the image of long pieces of wood stuck in his garage wall in my imagination.

He lived 15 minutes from my house so I offered him to come by my shop for a quick lesson on how to use it properly and had no idea what I was getting myself into. I spent 1 hour with the guy and had him run some stock. He then went home and called me a few days later to tell me that he was giving up. I asked why only to find that he outdid himself trying to crosscut boards using a sled and the rip fence without an offset… Yes, kickback from his garage took out the windshield of his car parked in the driveway.

Last I heard he sold off all of his equipment.

-- making sawdust....

I taught woodshop at the intermediate level for some 30 years. I made it a point that one should have all of their digits. The table saw was a little advanced for the students, however at my home shop I have had a kickback or two. Mostly because of not thinking (stupidity) so everytime one occured I wrote on a piece of paper and stapled to a cabinet door the time, date, and what happeded and the cause so I would not make the same mistake again.

-- bobdurnell, Santa Ana California.

Ok Motthunter, that’s not fair! For those of us with sore ribs, guts, etc. laughing hurts!
And Dano, usually I start with “so there I was in the Congo (puff, puff on my imaginary pipe)” Funniest part about that is I started saying that, when I was in the Congo (Air Force deployment)

-- Do what you love, the money will follow --Marsha Sinetar

My first experience with kickback was right after I bought my table saw, which would be some 30 years ago. At the time, I had not even heard of kickback. I was ripping a boad, and it began to bind. Before I knew what happened, the board shot accross the room and hit a concrete wall – at about the same height as my saw. It shot like an arrow, with very little drop about 30 feet. Fortunately, I was standing to the side of the board, and so it just whizzed past me, but I got the lesson and did some homework on kickback and what causes it.

Ever since then, I use a lot of featherboards and good solid push sticks. As one of the previous posters on this thread has already said, you should go over the process in your mind, before turning the power tool on to make sure you’re going to be doing it safely.

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

I reserved my first though until reading all of the other responces…Mark Mazzo hit it nearly word for word. The piece was way too small to be cutting with a tablesaw against the fence. If it came from a longer piece, it should have been the “drop” from a crosscut sled or miter gauge.

My reminder is a hole in the shop-side of the hollow-core door to my shop. Don’t remember what I was doing. Fortunately the kickback missed me, the door was closed, and no one else was standing between the saw and the door. I ought to put a little frame around that hole and a small quotation under it.

I try to do all my ripping on the band saw now. That’s the tool with the real thin-kerf blade in the shop. Without ripping that relegates the table saw to cutting dado’s and, with a sled, being used as a nice chop saw.

-- johnjoiner

”I try to do all my ripping on the band saw now. That’s the tool with the real thin-kerf blade in the shop. Without ripping that relegates the table saw to cutting dado’s and, with a sled, being used as a nice chop saw.” - johnjoiner

I have a booklet published by Fine Woodworking magazine called “The Small Shop.” In it is an article on shop safety that suggests using the band saw for ripping also. It is much safer on this saw, and, as you said, has a real “thin kerf.”

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

Motthunter and Longhair,

I am not sure that I know what you meant when you referred to using the sled without offset and that the piece should have been “drop” from the sled or miter. Could you explain?

Thanks

-- Steve

weekender I will try to explain. Imagine that you are using a crosscut sled and cutting multiple pieces that are each 4” wide. You can use the rip fence as a stop so you set the rip fence 4” away from the blade and proceed to load your sled so that the material end touches the rip fence and you push it through the saw. As soon as the wood clears the blade, it will bind between the spinning blade and the fence and shoot like a rocket back in your direction. DO NOT DO THIS>>>>

If you clamp a thick board to the rip fence far before the wood will contact the blade as you push the material through the blade, the cut off piece will have room to move without binding and you avoid the dangerous scenario I explained above. Using this “offset” board creates a level of safety.

I am at work now taking a break so I don’t have a photo to demonstrate this. I hope that my description is good enough to help you visualize this. The rule is never create a situation where wood binds between a fence and a spinning blade. The bandsaw is safer since that blade is going consistently down in motion and does not create such a hazard of kickback like a table saw. Also, the width (kerf) of a band saw blade is much finer so you when ripping, you can better rip between fibers and waste less wood as you go.

I hope that this helps.

-- making sawdust....

Longhair, Thanks for the input. You are obviously the wise woodworker that I am looking to for advice. As I said, I am in the process of building the crosscut sled, and that should eleviate some of my learning curve challenges I face. Again, thanks for the input.

-- Do what you love, the money will follow --Marsha Sinetar

Motthunter…That’s what I use the peice in the picture for now…works like a champ!

-- Do what you love, the money will follow --Marsha Sinetar

All that I have learned in woodworking came from asking question after question from people who know far more than me. I am glad to pass some of that on as I still look above me to real experts that are still teaching me new things all the time.

The beauty of this hobby is that no matter what you get good at or master, there is always a new level to go after and achieve. I just wish that I had a few more woodworking buddies here in Cleveland to hang out at my shop and work together with.

-- making sawdust....

In another post the question was “What is the most dangerous tool?” I have seen more injures caused from a table saw and a skill saw. Thanks everyone for all the good comments. SAFETY FIRST

-- Ron, Twain Harte, Ca. Portable on site Sawmill Service http://westcoastlands.net/Sawmill.html http://westcoastlands.net/SawBucks2/phpBB3

Weekender, I am very sorry for throwing out a word like “drop” w/o at least some definition. “Drop” or as some say “Fall” or “Fall-off” is the piece that you are cutting away from the main board. It is a bit of a loose term though, it is also used to describe the “left overs” when you are done cutting.
This is not to say that the “drop” is a bad thing. There is nothing to say that the drop can’t be the piece you need. It does not have to be the biggest piece either.
Say you are ripping a 2” wide piece from a board that is 8” wide. You set your fence 2” from the blade, make the cut, and the 6” left over is the drop. You are/were controlling the piece you wanted, the rest is left-over.
Just the opposite if you are cross-cutting small squares from a long board. You are going to control the long board….whether it is with a miter gauge or cross-cut sled or even a mitersaw (chop saw). Then the pieces you really want become the “drop”.

Airfieldman, thank you for the compliment. As a new guy, that feels pretty good. Hopefully we can all learn from each other.

Early 2007 I had a 3’x3’x3/4” sheet of baltic birch plywood ride up on the blade and kick back on me so hard I thought I had been hit by a car. All I could do was lay on the floor for a while. A while was more than a minute or two. All the while the heartless tablesaw just kept running.

When I could get up I drug my body out to the truck and went home for the day.

-- Todd A. Clippinger, Montana, http://amcraftsman.com

I was fortunate with my one and only (knocks on some scrap wood) kick-back incident.
Was ripping a piece of oak and didn’t push the wood all the way past the blade, let
up off of the push stick and the blade caught it and flung it right past my right hip and
into a belt sander behind me. Was one of those old industrial belt sanders with a rolled
steel body. The wood didn’t puncture it, but left a dent a good 2 inches deep in it.

I too was our units safety officer at the time…

-- Still learning everything

I had a close one, just banged up and split open my hand. But, my mistake was not careless, not typical, and not advisable; it was just plain stupid. You know when you’ve been in the shop all day, you know you’re too tired, but you just hate to quit. Well, I didn’t quit and paid for it. I wanted to cut some circles of wood for spacers. They were about 7” diameter and I have no dril bit that will cut a 7” cirlce. So I thought I’d cut it on the bandsaw. Worked great. A little sanding and it was good to go. But, I used 3/4” material. I decided I’d be thrifty and just slice the 3/4” down to make thin strips. Back to the bandsaw I went. Started cutting with circle vertacle held against the fence and BAM it caught on a tooth, hit my hand and quickly rolled across the room. Stupid me, I thought I must not have held it tight enough. Next try worked slick. Next try the material is only 1/2” and BAM this time it caught really good, split open my hand, flew across the room and nailed my jointer.

Lessons learned: 1) do not cut a thin round object into thinner pieces. 2) The shop must be closed when you become tired or anytime after 1am. Whether you think you are too tired or not, you are.

-- Kevin, Wichita, Kansas

As a shop teacher of 34 years, I have had a couple of kick back experiences. First year, had a kid try to use the table saw with no instruction; no fence or guard = two cracked ribs. I got hit when I saw a student letting the material drift away from the fence. I tried to put my hand on the material to stop her just when it kicked back. Hit my hand and her neck. OUCH! Part of the hazards of teaching shop.

Rocko, sorry but I’m still laughing at yours.

Kevin, know what you mean when you know you are tired and should quit. I said that to myself one time and then made one more cut with an xacto knife. 3 hours later and 3 stitches later I got home.

Oh yea, I had one kick back here at home on my table saw; still don’t know what happened but it sure happened fast.

-- Bill

First project on the table saw I bought was some feather boards. Second project was some push sticks. Results= over 300 hours on the tablesaw, not one kickback, zero injuries, no dents in walls or holes in doors.
Safety equipment like featherboards were designed with one thing in mind… to make a dangerous tool safer to use! If you use the tools correctly and stay alert while doing so, you have a better chance of walking away with all 10 fingers at the end of the day.
Muzzleloader

i’ve used a tablesaw since 1983 so i should know what to watch out for. while cutting some plywood panels( i’m re-doing my shop over as an x-mas present to myself) . anyway i had changed the tablesaw blade and in a moment of laziness i put the stock insert back in instead of the zero clearance one. as i was running a 24’’ square piece , i noticed that the 1/4’’ that i was slicing off was going to fall into the gap on the left side of the blade. while worrying over this for maybe (3/10 of a second?) that was more than enough time for my right hand to let the plywood drift from the fence and TA_DAH!! instant kickback . at this point it happened so fast i can only guess what i did. i remember trying to hold the piece in place , the saw screamed and suddenly Jack Nicholson hit me in the stomach with a golf club!! actually it was the plywood. i shut off the saw and wandered to the bench. i couldn’t believe how hard the piece hit.( i have a Grizzly 3hp cabinetmaker’s saw and that thing is one strong performer although i knew it before gutting myself) i opened my flannel shirt and saw a little blood coming thru the t-shirt. under the t-shirt a 4’‘x 3/4’’ gash. for a second it looked like i had punctured myself but when my finger didn’t slip into my inner workings that was something of a relief.

i slathered the wound with neosporin and put a bandage over it. today it is really bruised and even the shirt touching the wound hurts.

i will keep the piece of plywood as a reminder and the next thing i am going to do is make a bunch of zero clearance inserts and throw the factory one into the trash. i would highly recommend to anyone out there to either make some of these or buy them.

“keep your eye on the blade , stupid!!”

-ernieb

-- ernieb westerlo, ny

Good thread. I read through these posts to reinforce the needed respect one requires for all tools.

I try to anticipate the “worst thing that can happen” during any operation involving power or hand tools. By reading post like this I’ve only begun to image all the things that could potentially go wrong.

Play safe!

-- Nicky

ernieb, I have to second your call to have a few zero clearance inserts on hand. The factory insert always seems to cause trouble. Not always resulting in kickback but I hate when scrap gets sucked into the gaping hole next to the blade or the work piece hangs up on the back edge of the opening.

Thanks for sharing your stories, I think I’ll go make some more push blocks and feather boards.

I had kickback from a tablesaw happen to me once. Hopefully never again. I was ripping a short piece of maple. Come to find out, a bit too short. As I neared the end of the cut, the end opposite me climbed up onto the blade and then I saw stars. It hit me right in the chin. I had to get 13 stitches. My son was in the yard and brought me the piece of wood that hit me. It was about 25 feet behind me, off the my left. So to repeat, the short piece of maple hit my chin and still managed to fly about 25 feet. I have a Ridgid 3650 and I was not using the splitter that comes with it. I always use it now, along with the anti-kickback pawls on it. I kept the piece that hit me as a reminder to always be safe.