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Table saw blade will not stay aligned even with PALS

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Forum topic by one19 posted 09-28-2016 06:04 PM 2394 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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one19

65 posts in 1086 days


09-28-2016 06:04 PM

OK, I realize there are about a thousand threads on Lumberjocks’ forums about the virtues of and problems with Craftsman contractor saws. I’ve read through most, if not all, of them. I’ve also contributed to many. I’m starting a new thread on a familiar topic because of the degree of my particular problem.

I own a 113.299315 contractor saw, manufactured in 1995 in the US by Emerson for Craftsman. I’ve spent considerable time (if not money) tuning this saw up. This is my second such saw—I bought this saw specifically when it was time for a new one because I had such good experiences with my first one.

I’ve upgraded the fence, rails, and switch, among other things. I built a custom outfeed table and enclosed the cabinet and leg set to control dust. I even replaced the cabinet with a new, perfect edition because the original was a little bowed out and dented.

I’ve also installed the PALS system to help align the blade to the miter slots and there’s my problem… no matter how much I tighten the trunnion bolts and PALS fasteners, the blade eventually goes out of alignment. I’ve spent countless hours getting everything lined up to near perfection, but over time, it’s all out of whack again. I’m sure I’ve installed and adjusted the PALS components correctly and I’ve watched YouTube videos from the manufacturer as well as users. Again, I can get the blade aligned to parallel with miter slots. But it won’t stay that way. It always shifts to the right, from the perspective of the motor end of the saw.

Should I start looking for another trunnion/arbor assembly? I changed it out once because the original was damaged when I bought the saw. Perhaps there’s an issue with the replacement that I didn’t detect.

Am I forgetting something? Is there anyone here who has experienced the same kind of thing?

Before anyone makes the suggestion, I can’t go buy a new Powermatic or Jet or even the Delta that Lowe’s sells for $600. I’m on a limited budget. I’m also the kind of guy who likes to fix things and make them last for years. I’d really like to figure something out here but I’m at a loss.

Thoughts?

Thanks, people! I always appreciate your advice…


16 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7730 posts in 3159 days


#1 posted 09-28-2016 09:44 PM

I wonder if maybe you’ve got a burr under one of the trunnion brackets, or if a washer is gauled and pulling the whole assembly back out of alignment.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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one19

65 posts in 1086 days


#2 posted 09-28-2016 09:58 PM

Maybe, knotscott, but I just had the whole machine apart and I didn’t notice anything like that. Perhaps I missed it… I’m wondering now if the pulleys are aligned adequately. Could that be a factor?

I’m thinking now that I’ll pull everything apart again—for the umpteenth time—and try again, this time looking for worn or misshapen nuts/bolts/washers, whatever. I may have to consume two or three Sam Adams Octoberfests first, though. This has been frustrating and a test of my patience. Still, compared to cash, patience is something I have a lot of… :)

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

1127 posts in 1582 days


#3 posted 09-28-2016 10:13 PM

Well you don’t mention how much out it goes.
It might be as good as it gets.
My saw is about 60 years old and I will not align better then .004
A combination of the blade and slots and my equipment plus the saw is worn.
It’s a good as it gets

Aj

-- Aj

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one19

65 posts in 1086 days


#4 posted 09-28-2016 10:22 PM

The amount of misalignment varies… it’s a matter of how long I wait to correct it. Yesterday it was out by a thirty-second of an inch, after setting it right just one week before, and after making only a half-dozen cuts. It’s been out by as much as twice that in previous weeks. Thanks, AJ.

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

979 posts in 1237 days


#5 posted 09-28-2016 10:38 PM

Loctite.

-- Madmark - Madmark2150@yahoo.com Wiretreefarm.com

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

4312 posts in 922 days


#6 posted 09-29-2016 01:01 PM

I know you don’t want to hear it, but I’d tear the whole thing down and start over. Reinstalling the trunions to the table will give you an opportunity to find damaged bolts or washers and file all the mating surfaces to make sure they’re flat. Are you tilting the arbor between alignment and when it goes out? If you are, there may be some twist in the trunion mounting.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View JIMMIEM's profile

JIMMIEM

42 posts in 625 days


#7 posted 09-29-2016 01:17 PM

Are you using bolts or studs (threaded rod) with nuts to secure the trunion? I used studs with a nut and a nylock nut on top of the first nut. What type of washers are you using? Arbor bearings are ok…no wobble?

View one19's profile

one19

65 posts in 1086 days


#8 posted 09-29-2016 02:24 PM

Thanks for the ideas, fellas. I will tear it down again, this weekend if I can get to it, and I’ll inspect the pieces you’re talking about, Ken.

Jim and Mark: I’ll consider your suggestions about studs, new washers, and even Loctite.

Thanks for giving me something to go on…

View adostal12's profile

adostal12

2 posts in 51 days


#9 posted 09-02-2017 09:32 AM

I also am having trouble with this, have been struggling with it for years, but I am determined to fix it. I just went all through the saw, tuned it up. Even checked arbor run out and the dial indicator did not even shake a little (also checked pulley alignment). Had the blade to 0.001” parallel with the miter slot.

I hung the motor, cut one piece of 24” 3/4 plywood, and now the blade is 0.020” from parallel to the miter slot?

I think either the brackets or the underside of the table are not flat, and give it a chance to walk to relief.

Anyway, I’m still working on mine, and was wondering if and how you solved the problem.

View JIMMIEM's profile

JIMMIEM

42 posts in 625 days


#10 posted 09-02-2017 11:44 AM

How’s the arbor bearing…any play? Is the E clip that secures the arbor nice and tight? What is the difference in the distance from the miter slot between the front of the blade and the back of the blade?

View richardchaos's profile

richardchaos

204 posts in 163 days


#11 posted 09-02-2017 12:47 PM

I myself have had to align my blade on one of with table saw. I built my own set of PALs. I found out that when you get your blade perfect and then go to tighten the bolt it moves.

I have mine in the front trunnions.I loosen all 4 bolts but leave one of the back ones JUST TIGHT.

Then I used the PALs to align the blade BUT I had the PALs pushing against each other. What I mean is that I have the bolts/screws on the PAL firn against each other pressure. They were tight pushing against each other so if I need the right one to push the bade to the left I then turn the one on the left to PUSH against the right one.

Then she you tighten the bolts it should stay!


OK, I realize there are about a thousand threads on Lumberjocks forums about the virtues of and problems with Craftsman contractor saws. I ve read through most, if not all, of them. I ve also contributed to many. I m starting a new thread on a familiar topic because of the degree of my particular problem.

I own a 113.299315 contractor saw, manufactured in 1995 in the US by Emerson for Craftsman. I ve spent considerable time (if not money) tuning this saw up. This is my second such saw—I bought this saw specifically when it was time for a new one because I had such good experiences with my first one.

I ve upgraded the fence, rails, and switch, among other things. I built a custom outfeed table and enclosed the cabinet and leg set to control dust. I even replaced the cabinet with a new, perfect edition because the original was a little bowed out and dented.

I ve also installed the PALS system to help align the blade to the miter slots and there s my problem… no matter how much I tighten the trunnion bolts and PALS fasteners, the blade eventually goes out of alignment. I ve spent countless hours getting everything lined up to near perfection, but over time, it s all out of whack again. I m sure I ve installed and adjusted the PALS components correctly and I ve watched YouTube videos from the manufacturer as well as users. Again, I can get the blade aligned to parallel with miter slots. But it won t stay that way. It always shifts to the right, from the perspective of the motor end of the saw.

Should I start looking for another trunnion/arbor assembly? I changed it out once because the original was damaged when I bought the saw. Perhaps there s an issue with the replacement that I didn t detect.

Am I forgetting something? Is there anyone here who has experienced the same kind of thing?

Before anyone makes the suggestion, I can t go buy a new Powermatic or Jet or even the Delta that Lowe s sells for $600. I m on a limited budget. I m also the kind of guy who likes to fix things and make them last for years. I d really like to figure something out here but I m at a loss.

Thoughts?

Thanks, people! I always appreciate your advice…

- one19

View richardchaos's profile

richardchaos

204 posts in 163 days


#12 posted 09-02-2017 12:50 PM

ALSO I would see if the blade goes out of square at different hietghs and your just not seeing it over time.

Ridgid table saw had that insane problem. When the baked would be good when up only 3/4 on and inch but as you moved the beadle hop it would go this way and that way.

There are some fixes for that on YOUTUBE but it hap end to me I would take it back

View adostal12's profile

adostal12

2 posts in 51 days


#13 posted 09-02-2017 03:48 PM

I did a total tear down. The arbor bearings have zero play side to side or in and out. I had the arbor Assembly and shaft all apart, everything was cleaned, and lubed. The arbor run out was checked with a dial indicator, and it was substantially less than 0.001”, but I can’t measure in ten thousandths. The blade was adjusted incrementally, due to movement during bolt tightening. After fully tightening, the dial indicator read 0.0505 in the front, and 0.0515 in the back. This is not a true distance, but it’s relative.

After, that one cut I can’t remember the exact numbers, but it was 0.018” different from front to back. I have pictures, but I can’t post them yet due to not enough posts. It’s obvious to me that the trunion brackets are moving due to vibration.

That being said, I know the belt has memory from not being used much, and there is a little vibration. But it doesn’t seem terrible to me, not enough to cause movement in the bolted parts. Especially, as tight as I had those bolts!

My plan now is to get a new belt, readjust, and attempt some cuts. If that doesn’t work, my next plan is to touch up the surfaces with a file, stay as flat as possible, and retry. If that doesn’t work, I am going to talk to a machinist.

I will fix it, and keep you updated.

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2285 posts in 1629 days


#14 posted 09-02-2017 04:04 PM

Are you measuring with blade fully up, then lowering to test cut? If this is close to my POS R4512, then what you have described won’t help. Try raising the blade to the desired height. So if it is all the way up, lower it a few turns past what is needed and then crank up to what you need. I could see my blade move as it was lowered then move back as raised. Heavy tightening of the lock was a factor as well. I’m trying to describe reducing lash n to he gears as the issue.

-- I always suspected many gun nuts were afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

768 posts in 375 days


#15 posted 09-02-2017 04:16 PM

Adjust it once and weld forever.

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