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Why a table saw?

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Forum topic by Rotceh posted 06-20-2010 11:39 AM 1856 views 0 times favorited 33 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Rotceh

228 posts in 2199 days


06-20-2010 11:39 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question

when I see the workshop´s pictures of profesional woodworkers on E.E.U.U or Canada, I always watch a table saw with added of a table, few times I watch that they have a table planesaw. Here in europe all profesional cabinetmaker, have got one. I was thinking, and I can´t understand why they didn´t buy a planesaw if it can do all and more than a table saw with added. The space it needs is similar,and I want to make a question: Is so much expensive a planesaw than other, in those countries or there are other things to buy a simple table saw?

-- Work is my road to knowledge,Curiosity is my fellow traveler. El trabajo es mi camino al conocimiento, la curiosidad es mi compañero de viaje. Héctor


33 replies so far

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Moron

4724 posts in 2645 days


#1 posted 06-20-2010 12:23 PM

what is a “table plane saw”..........?..............I am not familier with the term?

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Rotceh

228 posts in 2199 days


#2 posted 06-20-2010 12:42 PM

is this tipe of table saw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytNic5umWNs

-- Work is my road to knowledge,Curiosity is my fellow traveler. El trabajo es mi camino al conocimiento, la curiosidad es mi compañero de viaje. Héctor

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Moron

4724 posts in 2645 days


#3 posted 06-20-2010 12:54 PM

The space they use is NOT similar. Mine takes up as much space as some shops,................a foot print of more then 200 sq ft. Not being a fan of laguna as they are not “profesional” saws. A good slider starts at about 10K up to over 30K and thats a lot of cake for a hobbyest.

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Rotceh

228 posts in 2199 days


#4 posted 06-20-2010 03:24 PM

I don´t speak about Laguna, because I never used his tools. The video is a example of the type of planesaw. If you speak about good planesaw, I think that´s this is ” Altendorf ”, ” Felder ”, ” SCM”, “ROBLAND” or ” Martin”. And they have many tipes of machine size, for the most popular size you need a small place to put it only 15 square meters or minor. I didn´t speak about a hobby, I was speaking about profesionals with a wood workshop, and this cabinetmakers they must to have a big place to work with panels of 2,9768 square meters or more. My question is why is not popular for this type of woodworkers?because this machines are more versatil,have more power, and are more precise than this small table saw. Here it isn´t be cheap about 6000 , 10000 euros or more

-- Work is my road to knowledge,Curiosity is my fellow traveler. El trabajo es mi camino al conocimiento, la curiosidad es mi compañero de viaje. Héctor

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knotscott

5607 posts in 2127 days


#5 posted 06-20-2010 03:29 PM

Many large commercial shops do have them. They’re too large and expensive for most hobbyists and small pro shops.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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Greedo

468 posts in 1712 days


#6 posted 06-20-2010 03:44 PM

panel saws are verry usefull at cutting panels, and verry average at everything else since you can’t stand behind the blade. it’s true that in europe it’s not a question of having a panel saw or not, but rather of how many. the workshop where i get my panels cut has 3 of them with only 1 or 2 employees.
in woodworking class we have actually never used the tablesaw, everything is done on the panel saw.
it takes a giant amount of space, but if you work with panels you need that space anyway to handle them.
a tablesaw can do lots of things it wasn’t made for, and for wich pro shops have dedicated machines (tenons etc), so the tablesaw is really a machine for hobby users or small shops.

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rhett

699 posts in 2419 days


#7 posted 06-20-2010 04:14 PM

A slider is a far superior machine that comes in a wide array of sizes. The space requirement is really dependant on how much travel capability one needs. A large saws carraige can cut 12’ where as a smaller model may only have the capacity to slide 48”.

I am sure these european saws are more affordable in the UK since they aren’t shipped over to the US.

Anyone who has ever had the pleasure to use one would surely switch styles to this type of saw.

-- It's only wood.

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griph0n

68 posts in 2095 days


#8 posted 06-20-2010 04:47 PM

bahhhh sheetgoods, what next biscuits and pocket screws?

(I’m just jealous, can’t cut plywood without cursing a blue streak and rearranging my whole shop)

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Rotceh

228 posts in 2199 days


#9 posted 06-20-2010 05:16 PM

I´m from Spain, and I´m sure that ” felder ” is being sold in usa. Here midrange or premium planesaw of felder can be cost 7000 euros to 11.500 € with tax ( 8700$ or14.300$).I never worked in a wood workshop that it hadn´t got one plane saw. And I worked in small wood workshops with only two workers. Here is necesary, because we use wood and greats panels of mdf, melamin or plywood to work.I only say is curious that professional woodworker´s don´t buy this type of machine because is better to work.

-- Work is my road to knowledge,Curiosity is my fellow traveler. El trabajo es mi camino al conocimiento, la curiosidad es mi compañero de viaje. Héctor

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lwllms

549 posts in 2033 days


#10 posted 06-20-2010 06:09 PM

”is this tipe of table saw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytNic5umWNs

I think I’d rather have the “atmosphere” tools hanging on the wall than that POS.

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a1Jim

112934 posts in 2329 days


#11 posted 06-20-2010 06:49 PM

Hey Hector
I think some cabinet makers have these saws but unless you have enough volume of work involving sheet goods it doesnt make sense to buy a saw that cost up to ten times the cost of of good table saw plus takes up twice the space.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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Knothead62

2364 posts in 1713 days


#12 posted 06-20-2010 07:24 PM

You would have to own a couple of oil wells (that don’t leak) and a small railroad to afford one of those.

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Rotceh

228 posts in 2199 days


#13 posted 06-20-2010 08:07 PM

I think that you are too exaggerated. I only speak about profesionaI´s cabinetmaker.
You have got saw mills, but here are to expensive to buy it.
I don´t know how is the market of furniture makers in those countries, but in Europe if you have a little workshop to make furniture, you must to have got one planesaw or a combined machine with slider, if you want to work fast and good. This type of machine usually have got two saws, one more bigger than the other. The smaller saw is for pre-cut the melamin and have a clean cut of the panel, the small table saw don´t have this small saw and don´t be clean the cut. Here the panel of melamin is very usually to use and if you want to make business, you must to do a good cut panel.I only wanted to make a question, I didn´t want criticize or discuss. if you think that the table saw is better for your work, I don´t try to change your opinion. I only had been curious

-- Work is my road to knowledge,Curiosity is my fellow traveler. El trabajo es mi camino al conocimiento, la curiosidad es mi compañero de viaje. Héctor

View levan's profile

levan

428 posts in 1731 days


#14 posted 06-20-2010 08:51 PM

Hi Hector
The shop I worked in has 2 Altendorfs and the shop I worked in previously also had one. Its all economics, If you have enough business to justify the cost. It took me along time to convince the people at the second shop how much difference a saw like this could make. But when adding an addition to the shop that was one of the first machines we wanted to add. So we ended with 2 for about 5 people.
The accuracy of those saws are unbelievable. Since we worked mostly with hardwoods, the staight line and rip is wonderful. It sure cuts down on the jointer use. I do believe if I was to start a cabinet shop, it would be the first thing on my wish list. Right after the building

-- "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right". Henry Ford

View KnotWright's profile

KnotWright

247 posts in 2240 days


#15 posted 06-20-2010 08:55 PM

Hector, As a cabinetmaker that owned both type machines, I think most small shops start off with a good quality table saw that fits the needs at the time and is affordable to that shop. As time goes by and profits improve most shops do upgrade to either a better quality table saw or the more efficient “plane” or sliding table, table saws.

First a cabinet shop must have the space for the “plane” / sliding table saw since it has not only the infeed and outfeed area, but has an outrigger that moves along with the sliding table. All this area must be kept clear for this type of saw.

Simple table saws don’t have this problem, although you should keep the area clear around the equipment for smooth operation.

The second and probably more important is the cost of the machine. Here in the U.S. all the brands mentioned so far are available either on a lease or purchase option. For me it was a matter of efficiency, as a one man shop, it was far easier for me to set a sheet on the sliding table and clamp it down and run my cuts. I could set up for multiple sizes and rip most all the parts with a minimum amount of set up time. I opted for a lease which made getting the machine a much easier possiblity for me.

If you learn your craft on a simple table saw its much harder sometimes to convert to a different type of machine no mater what the cost. Much like switching from a Mac computer to a PC computer, or from a Chevy to a Ford, or Toyota or any other brand. Its all about your comfort zone.

I’m seeing and hearing more and more shops switching to CNC machines all the time, since they do so many more functions all with the same machine. I’m not that comfortable with all the programming and computer control, I’m much more hands on and that’s why I stay with the Table saw and routers.

-- James

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