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random inquiries by a commissioner

2K views 39 replies 11 participants last post by  DromSealis 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
(Section edited out; it seems people treated this portion of my OP as the main focus of the thread, which it isn't; it was merely 'extra read'. I realized that it served no functional purpose to the content at hand and, furthermore, caused a distracting shift in focus from my actual intention; two of the first three members who replied didn't actually answer my questions… Albeit, I do have to admit that my "specificality" statement, which I wasn't aware till now that I used three times in a sentence, was quite frivolous. =P)

1 - I have a design for a product that's supposed to take on the shape of a candle holder. I'd like to incorporate two accent rings with lacquer spray. Considering that the rings are ~.125" - ~.25", I understand that spraying the lacquer probably wouldn't be a first idea, as the areas are very narrow and hard to do. (Consult the following 3d-rendered diagram)
Drinkware Sports equipment Serveware Font Indoor games and sports


a) Is this possible to do with a small paint brush and not have 'brush rings' after application?

b) What kind of paint brush would be recommended for this kind of job?

c) Can regular wood finish/varnish/oil/other finishing wood agent be applied on top of the lacquer with no problem of scraping off? If not, what can/should be done to prevent lacquer contact with skin and the rest of the outside world?

2 - What is a decent glue to paste Holly lumber together? I have a set of 4/4 10" pieces that I like to join together to create a 4-inch thick turning block.

(I have at least one other question which escaped me at the moment.)

Thanks,
Drom
 

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#4 ·
I believe you should take some wood working classes. First this is not an insult, just constructive input. You need to spend time with the guy and see what's involved in bringing you're designs to life. You may discover he's not a cheapskate or you may find you need a new partner? I worked for a lady once doing faux finishes. She had no hands on experience, her knowledge was based on some classes she took and YouTube videos. She constantly accused us of charging to much and general incompetence because the jobs could not be completed in the time or manner she thought they should. Customers were happy the work was great. Due to her lack of field experience or real world application she could not understand what actually went into the process. I have known several people in you're situation. The only ONE that was successful spent lots of time with his craftsmen learning the process. By doing so he knew who was cheap, incompetent, and who was damn good and charged a fair price. This applies to any trade or skill. Not many who go into business and plan to hire others to make something of their design because they cant actually make it. I see them all the time.
 
#6 ·
Foam brush cut down for larger areas, small artist or modelers brush for the small crevices. A thought - a properly sized string, dip the middle in paint, and hold momentarily to the desired area while spinning on the lathe. Ive burned a lot of accents with wire on the lathe, a string may work for paint.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
Well, MadMark answered one question. Foam brushes come in infinite array of sizes and shapes, that lazy susan is a new one to me thanks Mark. MadMark is very talented check his projects, he was dead serious. Or mask it and use an air brush.

AS far as finishes over lacquer sure. Ask your paint supplier to recommend one.

I'm not a turner, cant advise on that question. Tight bond is what I use but don't know if you can turn laminated piece.

I think you should shift focus a bit, if you collaborate with your woodworker like you collaborate with us…...... well its not going to work, sorry. If you are asking questions here so you can tell some one else how to do it, you need to hire someone else. If your goal is simply to hire semi skilled workers to build beautiful pieces from your imagination to be sold at a profit. They already do that its called made in china. If you want premium pieces you need a highly skilled individual, but they are not cheap.
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
Foam brush cut down for larger areas, small artist or modelers brush for the small crevices. A thought - a properly sized string, dip the middle in paint, and hold momentarily to the desired area while spinning on the lathe. Ive burned a lot of accents with wire on the lathe, a string may work for paint.

- OSU55
That's an interesting idea. The string will have to be quite thin, though.

Would you happen to know what kind of material would work best? (Plastick, wool, Horse hair, etc.)

JWM, I'll get to your response in a bit.
 
#11 ·
Consider having the parts turned separately so they can be finished prior to assembly. An alternative is to turn the beads, paint them then finish turning the rest of the piece. That would require a very skilled turner to pull off.
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
Do you mean have lacquered components and main body and base as separate pieces to be glued together after lacquering?

If so, I did unofficially entertain this. However, I did forget to mention: I would like to try make this all one piece. Gluing separate pieces together maybe the easiest way to go about this, but not necessarily the most beneficial: The product I'm creating comes in a myriad of wood species, many of which are hard and dense oily woods that aren't very friendly with gluing.

Since these will become game pieces that clack with other game pieces, I know I should absolutely try to avoid this option until all other options to go about this as one piece are exhausted. Even then, I might have to drop the design and try a new one.
 
#13 ·
Yes, that was my first suggestion.

The second one would be turning everything out of a solid block but in two stages. The first stage involves roughing the entire piece to a nearly-completed state. Then the two beads that are destined for silver paint get finished and painted. At this point you can slop paint around so long as the beads are completely coated. Then a final pass is taken on the rest of the turning which removes all stray paint but leaves the silver beads untouched.

The reason a skilled turner is needed is because few people have enough control to do a final cut in one pass without damaging adjacent areas.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
"The reason a skilled turner is needed is because few people have enough control to do a final cut in one pass without damaging adjacent areas."

Absolutely. And, this was very much what I was afraid of: as I'm shipping my (quite expensive) stockpile of exotic woods internationally with little to no control over it once my biz partner receives in his factory, a silly icing-on-cake feature as silver lacquered beads might not be the most financially sound for this product. I may end of just dropping it and reverting back to the original mono-chromatic look.

Of course, it (your latter suggestion) may work, since my biz partner's company has existed for more than 40 years. And, he and his workers will be experimenting on common boxwood.

On another note, one other member suggested alternatively to foam-brush the general bead area and using a very thin string to paint into the hard-to-access crevice (transitional seep where lacquered bead meets unlacquered main body, head or base.). I don't know how efficient this is yet (since I haven't asked my biz partner to try it), but logically-sounding, it does somewhat seem like something that could work.
 
#15 ·
How about acrylic paints, with a very small brush, painted with the piece on the lathe. You can get it smooth. Spray poly over acrylic paint is a nice finish.

I've done this on basswood, holly might absorb differently. Many folks apply liquid lacquer on the wood before painting. That way you can get paint errors off without it soaking into the wood.
 
#16 ·
Drom I think you need to learn to be the customer and not the professional or as some have suggested learn from the professionals. You ask your questions with a preconceived acceptable answer and then shoot down the answers with arguments you have not proven. In my opinion You should learn to turn your own parts because as a professional wood worker I would avoid your commission. You are impossible to satisfy and wont be taught.
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
How about acrylic paints, with a very small brush, painted with the piece on the lathe. You can get it smooth. Spray poly over acrylic paint is a nice finish.

I ve done this on basswood, holly might absorb differently. Many folks apply liquid lacquer on the wood before painting. That way you can get paint errors off without it soaking into the wood.
Harry, I can definitely try acryllic liquid coated with Polyurethane. (That answers one of my original questions, which I think was accidentally skipped over by most.)

Basswood and American Holly is a very light wood compared to species like Padauk, Ebony, Katalox/Queenwood, Verawood(!!!!!!!) and Rosewoods; all these species which I plan to use for this product. Do you know if these heavier woods would effect the acryllic differently?

As far as your sentiment goes, REO,
Drom I think you need to learn to be the customer and not the professional or as some have suggested learn from the professionals. You ask your questions with a preconceived acceptable answer and then shoot down the answers with arguments you have not proven. In my opinion You should learn to turn your own parts because as a professional wood worker I would avoid your commission. You are impossible to satisfy and wont be taught.
I think I've been pretty receptive to more of the advice I've received on here than I haven't.

That aside, I do want to mention (since you brought it up; mind you, quite inappropriately): seeing that in real life I'm generally reputed as someone who "listens and [is] willing to learn more than others," I have found time and again that those isolated people who claim me "impossible to teach/satisfy/be moved" (etc.) are usually the very ones who have this exact problem themselves. I don't know you in real life, so I can't say if this is you, but there you go.

I'm guessing you stopped reading to reply after my initial response to JWMAlone.

I am surprised that you are using Holly as it is pretty expensive. I would think that maple would work as well and be significantly cheaper.

I use some Holly for Intarsia and it is difficult to find good pieces at a reasonable price.
Premium holly indeed isn't the cheapest USA Domestic wood on the market. But, it is the whitest!! On the other hand, I have found my maple/wenge board to change colors significantly from when I first bought it: the maple was a pleasant creamish white, only to become a darker cherry cream over a matter of a few months.

But, you're right: if it weren't for the rich white, I would have not chosen this ridiculously un-cheap piece of treasure.

If anything, though, it's not all that hard to find. I just wait until DomEx has some nice stuff to sell. If I have the saved budget (and I'm a savvy type of gal), I'm on the spend. =)
 
#20 ·
In fact I read every post in every thread in which you have posted to see if you were on a roll or out of character just in this one. It would appear by what you have posted that you your self question the judgment of the professional you have chosen to do the work. Rather than find a qualified professional you plan to glean the specific information you want in order to bring "your" professional up to speed. What several have inferred is that the questions aren't cut and dried. there can possibly be a set process that must be adhered to, or certain modifications can be made that can produce the results you are looking for. You appear to be looking for corroboration to one answer the one you want to hear. Without understanding the whole process. in answer to your other question. clean surfaces to be glued with solvent till stain transfer is minimized reducing natural oils on the surface. rough up surface with coarse abrasive too give the adhesive a good grip surface. rescorcinol is the historical favorite, but west systems epoxies and urethane based adhesives are good candidates as well. the key factor is more surface prep rather than type of adhesive.
 
#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
(Except for one single member, MadMark, of whom I was in a quandary as to his level of seriousness (perhaps I mis-interpretted)) Please point to me where I allegedly cherry-picked details to exclusive answers that I 'wanted to hear'. Also, please point out where I have blindly ignored that this was a larger complicated process that may incorporate more than just one singular method.

Did you think repeating yourself would make your post any more substantial the second time you say it?

In fact (yeah…) I read every post in every thread in which you have posted to see if you were on a roll or out of character just in this one.
Right…..except that my other thread's posts have been nothing but benign and mundane; even more so than my activity in this thread.

I 'suspect' that you went back to read all my posts in this thread after my calling you on your quite disingenuous assessment; only to realize that you were, at most, half-on-spot.
 
#22 ·
AS I said now I understand. Basically you want to buy exotic woods from south America, ship it to India then have your product assembled by semi skilled workers in a sweat shop, then sell it for a nice profit. Why didn't you just say so! I was correct on my first assumption. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would love to help you. I mean every wood worker in the world who makes a living selling truly hand crafted items wants nothing more than to put themselves out of work so that someone with no skill can make a buck. lmao And why did you come here for advice? Evidently you're educated, far better places to get your answers.
 
#26 ·
a) Is this possible to do with a small paint brush and not have brush rings after application?
b) What kind of paint brush would be recommended for this kind of job?
c) Can regular wood finish/varnish/oil/other finishing wood agent be applied on top of the lacquer with no problem of scraping off? If not, what can/should be done to prevent lacquer contact with skin and the rest of the outside world?

2 - What is a decent glue to paste Holly lumber together? I have a set of 4/4 10" pieces that I like to join together to create a 4-inch thick turning block.

- DromSealis
a) yes
b) don't know, consult an artist
c) consult an artist

2) wood glue (PVA yellow glue)

Some general advice … don't try to micromanage how it gets done unless you are an expert on doing it and obviously you are not since you are asking. Write out very specifically what you want and hire someone to do it. Let them figure out how. They should do production samples (which you will pay for) until the product is exactly how you want it. Quality control will be expensive, don't skimp. If you go in telling them how to do it then I guarantee the price is going to go up, way up.
 
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