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Saw struggles to cut 8/4 hard maple. Normal?

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Forum topic by Dagobah posted 09-14-2016 06:38 PM 1015 views 1 time favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Dagobah

35 posts in 122 days


09-14-2016 06:38 PM

This week I cut my first piece of 8/4 lumber which happened to be hard maple. My saw (a Delta 36-725 w/ a Freud Industrial 50T thin kerf combo blade) struggled to make most of the cuts. The garage lights dimmed, most of the boards were burned and you could hear the saw struggle. This was all while making the cuts very very slowly.

I realize the saw is only 1 1/2 hp and hard maple is very dense, but I was surprised it had so much trouble. Is this to be expected? When the lights dimmed, it made me wonder if adding a dedicated outlet/breaker for the saw wouldn’t help.


23 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3925 posts in 1952 days


#1 posted 09-14-2016 06:48 PM

I’m guessing this was rip cuts (?). Did you have burning on the cut edges? More likely it was the blade, with a true rip blade (stay with TK) or at least a combo blade with fewer teeth you may have had more success. Forrest doesn’t recommend rip cuts in wood over 1” thick with their 40 tooth WWII. But the 30 tooth does just fine. Back to the “burning” thing, it’s also possible that the fence isn’t aligned properly (?).

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Dagobah

35 posts in 122 days


#2 posted 09-14-2016 06:55 PM



I m guessing this was rip cuts (?). Did you have burning on the cut edges? More likely it was the blade, with a true rip blade (stay with TK) or at least a combo blade with fewer teeth you may have had more success. Forrest doesn t recommend rip cuts in wood over 1” thick with their 40 tooth WWII. But the 30 tooth does just fine. Back to the “burning” thing, it s also possible that the fence isn t aligned properly (?).

- Fred Hargis

Yes, these were all rip cuts. I had no idea different blades were rated for different depths! Looking here I can see that my blade is only rated for a max of 1 1/2” rip cuts. That seems to explain it.

On the burning, I’m fairly certain the fence is well aligned. Some cuts came out with minimal burn, but a few were burned most of the length. I’ll double check it when I’m home.

Guess I’ll be shopping for a dedicated rip blade!

View JayT's profile

JayT

4770 posts in 1670 days


#3 posted 09-14-2016 06:59 PM

Freud makes a 24 tooth Diablo rip blade that does a great job (D1024X). It’s amazing how much difference that will make.

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3663 posts in 1180 days


#4 posted 09-14-2016 06:59 PM

The most important thing for clean (& efficient) rip cuts are power, alignment, the right blade & having a sharp blade. You can sacrifice a little efficiency when giving up a little power but the remainder are all very important. From where you’re at, I would buy a new, quality thin kerf ripping blade and recheck the alignment once more just to be sure and give it another go.

View MrFid's profile

MrFid

804 posts in 1364 days


#5 posted 09-14-2016 06:59 PM

Yeah that’s a lot of teeth to push through 8/4 Hard Maple. My Forrest 40T thin kerf combo blade can sometimes burn 8/4 hard maple on the first push. I’d give yourself some wiggle room widthwise (like half a blade’s worth) then take a skim cut, and finish with a handplane. Agree with Fred that misaligned fence might be the issue with burning. With Hard maple it’s probably not pinching the blade, but that would be a suspect if you were cutting a softer wood, especially if you don’t have a riving knife installed.

-- Bailey F - Eastern Mass.

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MrFid

804 posts in 1364 days


#6 posted 09-14-2016 07:01 PM



Freud makes a 24 tooth Diablo rip blade that does a great job (D1024X). It s amazing how much difference that will make.

- JayT

Yeah I’ve got that one… it’s very good.

-- Bailey F - Eastern Mass.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

623 posts in 1411 days


#7 posted 09-14-2016 07:07 PM



I m guessing this was rip cuts (?). Did you have burning on the cut edges? More likely it was the blade, with a true rip blade (stay with TK) or at least a combo blade with fewer teeth you may have had more success. Forrest doesn t recommend rip cuts in wood over 1” thick with their 40 tooth WWII. But the 30 tooth does just fine. Back to the “burning” thing, it s also possible that the fence isn t aligned properly (?).

- Fred Hargis

Actually Forrest indicates that the 40 tooth Woodworker II can be used to rip 2” hardwood (for all kerf sizes). It is the 48 tooth Woodworker II that they indicate should be limited to ripping 1” hardwood.

http://www.forrestblades.com/10-woodworker-ii-saw-blade-40-teeth.html

http://www.forrestblades.com/woodworker-ii-48-tooth/

I agree that the 30 tooth dedicated ripping blade would be optimal for the task, but at $145 each the 40 tooth blade seems to be the sweet spot.

View Dagobah's profile

Dagobah

35 posts in 122 days


#8 posted 09-14-2016 07:07 PM



... would buy a new, quality thin kerf ripping blade ..

- bigblockyeti

It looks like Freud makes a few TK rip blades. One being the (D1024X) mentioned above:
https://www.amazon.com/D1024X-Diablo-10-Inch-24-Tooth-PermaShield/dp/B00008WQ2V/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1473879856&sr=1-1&keywords=D1024X

And a more expensive version:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000225UH/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=R5KTRFQ7EDJ5&coliid=I28F5IPJ8AJ2JI&psc=1

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3663 posts in 1180 days


#9 posted 09-15-2016 12:18 AM

I think you’d be fine with the less expensive option. The more expensive blade would likely stay cooler if being used a lot under heavy load and it probably has a bit thicker carbide too so it could be sharpened a few more times as well.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4202 posts in 1658 days


#10 posted 09-15-2016 01:49 AM

When the lights dimmed, it made me wonder if adding a dedicated outlet/breaker for the saw wouldn’t help.
- Dagobah

That is a 13A saw – which is pushing a standard 15A wall circuit pretty hard. As per the manual for that saw:

A separate electrical circuit should be used for your machines. This circuit should not be less than #12 wire and should be protected with a 20-amp time lag fuse.

If you are dimming lights, then the saw isn’t getting enough juice – so putting it on a dedicated circuit should improve the machines performance. How much? Won’t know until you try :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View nightguy's profile

nightguy

213 posts in 122 days


#11 posted 09-15-2016 02:31 AM

Do yo have a riffing knife on your saw? The internal stress of the wood could have been pinching the blade also.
IMBI I never found a combo blade worth a poop, my thin K Freud rib blade rips great, rated excellent for ripping, and is rated very good for cross cuts, where there combo is rate only fare for both.

View Kirk650's profile

Kirk650

288 posts in 208 days


#12 posted 09-15-2016 02:11 PM

I use a 40 tooth std kerf Forrest WW2 blade in my 1.5 hp saw. Works fine and has for years, but it works much better since I re-aligned the fence to the blade. Don’t know how it got out of alignment, but it did, and was causing a lot of drag and burning/scorching of the edge being cut. No scorch marks now.

As for light dimming, or even a breaker being thrown, I’m guessing that the internal stresses in the wood are pinching down on the back side of the blade. I’ve had that problem many times. That, and a mis-aligned fence, will bog your blade for sure.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1735 posts in 598 days


#13 posted 09-15-2016 02:17 PM


Freud makes a 24 tooth Diablo rip blade that does a great job (D1024X). It s amazing how much difference that will make.

- JayT

Yeah I ve got that one… it s very good.

- MrFid

Ditto. I think a dedicated rip blade will fix your problem. You combo blade will handle most cuts but rips on thick, dense woods like HM are hard on a blade with that many teeth.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View 53d's profile

53d

4 posts in 522 days


#14 posted 09-15-2016 04:12 PM

I have that same saw and the same blade. I think Freud says that 50T blade is good to like 1.5” maybe? A TK Rip would be better suited for wood that thick.

As for the lights dimming, you need to need to have the saw on a circuit by itself. Whoever had my house built in the 1970’s, had all the outlets in the garage put on individual circuits. So I run tools off one outlet and the dust collection off another outlet. When I tried to run a shop vac with the saw on the same outlet, it would occasionally trip the breaker. With it on it’s own circuit, it never has a problem. I’ve ripped 8/4 Walnut and 8/4 Hard Maple with the TK Rip blade and the saw doesn’t bog down at all. Only problem is stress in the wood pinching the riving knife. Sometimes it pinches so bad I physically can’t move the wood through the saw. I have to shut it down, pull it back and cut again. Riving knives are awesome considering what probably would happen in those situations without one

View jmartel's profile

jmartel

6564 posts in 1609 days


#15 posted 09-15-2016 04:31 PM

In addition to the above, are you using your saw on a long extension cord? Keep a heavy gauge cord 15ft or less if possible. I had issues with an old craftsman TS when ripping thicker wood because I had it on a 50ft cord. Put it on a shorter one and it was significantly better.

You need a dedicated ripping blade, and a dedicated crosscutting blade will do wonders for how clean the cut is as well. Personally I hate combo blades.

-- The quality of one's woodworking is directly related to the amount of flannel worn.

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