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220v options in my garage?

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Forum topic by derrick3636 posted 09-06-2016 03:49 PM 905 views 0 times favorited 45 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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derrick3636

72 posts in 605 days


09-06-2016 03:49 PM

Hello,

With the addition of the planer I recently added to my tool collection, I really need to start seriously considering at least one 220v outlet in our garage.

As it sits right now, I just rotate plugging in whichever tool I’m getting ready to use, and everything else stays unplugged. I don’t mind doing things that way. My kids like to come out and watch me work, and I’d rather not have tools plugged in that don’t need to be.

Having said all that, it’d be nice to have a couple more outlets….

Right now I’m working with:

A Craftsman 113.xxxx table saw. It has. 1hp/120v motor(I forget the amperage).
A Makita LS1013 miter 120/13a
The motor I have for my jointer is either 120 or 220, and 16 or 8a
Now, the planer I just purchased has a 5hp 220/15a motor on it.

That means I’m looking at at least 1 220v outlet that I need. I’d like to wire the jointer for 220, and have them share an out let. Then I could continue swapping plugs for the rest of my 120 stuff.

We have a 200a service panel mounted in the garage. The previous owners had a hot tub that used a 50a breaker. We got rid of the tub as soon as we moved in, and that 50a breaker goes unused. If this was your situation, what would you do?

I could always use more 120 outlets, but they’re not a necessity. I could always use our dryer outlet in a pinch. I’ve done a 220v extension cord in the past for my welder, it’s just not my favorite option.

Any help would be great.

Thank you

Derrick


45 replies so far

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2198 posts in 948 days


#1 posted 09-06-2016 04:16 PM

Any machine that big needs to be on a dedicated circuit. Depends on FLA but you’re probably looking at 30A breaker and #10wire.

I’m not an electrician but I think you could run the planer off the dryer just build an extension cord.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

700 posts in 854 days


#2 posted 09-06-2016 04:21 PM

You’ve got to add at least one 220v outlet for the planer anyway and since you already have 50A breaker that should make it relatively easy to add. While you are at it I would add 2 220v outlets so that you can later add a dust collector. 2 outlets would make it more flexible where you put your 2 current 220v capable tools as well. And while the electrician is there, you might as well have him put in some extra 120v outlets too. If it fits the budget , add another breaker for the extra 120v outlets around your shop and have him use a 30amp breaker and the appropriate gauge wire and at least 20 amp receptacles. You can never have too many 120v outlets in a shop.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1194 posts in 1361 days


#3 posted 09-06-2016 04:21 PM

I use 80% hand tools, however we just upgraded our entire electrical panel because it was outdated, no breaker space, unsafe. Had the electrician install 1 220 outlet for my bandsaw (I was using the dryer outlet, which was kind of a PITA), which is the only machine that needs that large of a plug. Also had him install two 120 outlets for other stuff.

So if I’m not a electricity hog in my garage and needed three more outlets, I’d say you need to add some plugs.

I defer to electrical experts about how best to do that. I can add an outlet to an additional circuit, but when it comes to adding a new circuit to the panel, I’m gonna pay a pro.

View UpstateNYdude's profile

UpstateNYdude

703 posts in 1450 days


#4 posted 09-06-2016 05:15 PM

It depends what is the make and model of the planer you just bought? Most 5HP motors require a 30A service but if the running load is only 15A then a 20A breaker can be used. You cannot use the 50A breaker for this or the wire run for it, you run a massive risk of starting a fire or killing the machine if it did have a sudden surge for whatever reason.

If it only needs a 220V 20A breaker you can get a double pole breaker to fill that slot where the 50A was and run some new 12/2 AWG line (usually it’s yellow now in the big box stores) with a similar outlet and you’re in business. If it requires 30A can the breaker to the correct amperage and adjust the wire to 10/2 AWG (usually its orange now in the big box stores) with a similar outlet.

If you don’t know what you’re doing please call an electrician as that many amps can do some serious damage and kill you very easily.

-- Nick, "Choking to death on bacon is like getting murdered by your lover." - JG

View HerbC's profile

HerbC

1592 posts in 2326 days


#5 posted 09-06-2016 05:28 PM

The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wiring circuit from overload which can overheat and start a fire. It is not to protect the equipment connected to the circuit, that should have it’s own overload protection internal to the device. If the wiring for the 50 A circuit is available it could be used if it is properly sized and in good condition. If you’re going to run new wiring sized for the planer load then change the breaker to match.

Herb

-- Herb, Florida - Here's why I close most messages with "Be Careful!" http://lumberjocks.com/HerbC/blog/17090

View derrick3636's profile

derrick3636

72 posts in 605 days


#6 posted 09-06-2016 05:31 PM


It depends what is the make and model of the planer you just bought? Most 5HP motors require a 30A service but if the running load is only 15A then a 20A breaker can be used. You cannot use the 50A breaker for this or the wire run for it, you run a massive risk of starting a fire or killing the machine if it did have a sudden surge for whatever reason.

If it only needs a 220V 20A breaker you can get a double pole breaker to fill that slot where the 50A was and run some new 12/2 AWG line (usually it s yellow now in the big box stores) with a similar outlet and you re in business. If it requires 30A can the breaker to the correct amperage and adjust the wire to 10/2 AWG (usually its orange now in the big box stores) with a similar outlet.

If you don t know what you re doing please call an electrician as that many amps can do some serious damage and kill you very easily.

- UpstateNYdude

It’s a Woodmaster w612.

Here is the tag from it. I’ll have to do some digging to find out more about the motor.

View Rentvent's profile

Rentvent

148 posts in 316 days


#7 posted 09-06-2016 05:43 PM

The easy: Replace the 50A breaker with a 20 A breaker and run 12ga wire to a new outlet.

The better: Install a 50A subpanel to feed multiple 110 and 220 outlets

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

424 posts in 592 days


#8 posted 09-06-2016 11:02 PM



The easy: Replace the 50A breaker with a 20 A breaker and run 12ga wire to a new outlet.

The better: Install a 50A subpanel to feed multiple 110 and 220 outlets

- Rentvent

No question on the sub-panel! Unless the OP is familiar with wiring it would be wise to hire a “sparky” on this one. He/she will be able to determine what size wire is coming from that 50a breaker which will determine the subpanel size. OP already knows about “load” and the fact rarely will 2 machines operate at the same time. EMT conduit is cheap!

View derrick3636's profile

derrick3636

72 posts in 605 days


#9 posted 09-07-2016 02:14 AM

These are all great ideas. Thank you everyone!!
The 50a sub-panel sounds like the way to go. I just don’t know how easy of a time I’d have selling it to my wife.

I work with a lot of electricians, and I might be able to offset the cost of labor with beer. Otherwise, I should probably get some proper estimates.

A single 220v would be nice, but it seems like it might be wasted effort. I could just run an extension cord from the dryer until I get a sub-panel figured out. It’s not ideal, but it’s better than nothing.

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

424 posts in 592 days


#10 posted 09-07-2016 12:12 PM



These are all great ideas. Thank you everyone!!
The 50a sub-panel sounds like the way to go. I just don t know how easy of a time I d have selling it to my wife.

I work with a lot of electricians, and I might be able to offset the cost of labor with beer. Otherwise, I should probably get some proper estimates.

A single 220v would be nice, but it seems like it might be wasted effort. I could just run an extension cord from the dryer until I get a sub-panel figured out. It s not ideal, but it s better than nothing.

- derrick3636

I can’t imagine the total cost would be more than $200. And your sparky may be willing to set the panel and leave the downstream wiring to you so he doesn’t have to wrestle with the dilemma of GFCI vs. standard outlets.

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derrick3636

72 posts in 605 days


#11 posted 09-07-2016 01:07 PM

It looks like this is exactly what I want to do: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bDuOVe19C8M
He doesn’t wire up the individual outlets(in this video at least), but he does do the sub-panel. Our garage would be the same setup. The new panel would be going right next to the main panel.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

700 posts in 854 days


#12 posted 09-07-2016 01:49 PM

You can probably limit the beer labor to installing the subpanel and do the rest of the work yourself. Actually, you probably just need him to connect the wire from the subpanel to the 50A breaker and inspect your work and do the bulk of the installation yourself since the video shows you how. Probably a 1 or 2 beer job max, though I would throw a burger on the grill too. Once the sub-panel is in, you can turn off the sub-panel with the 50A breaker, making it pretty easy to add circuits as needed yourself.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7158 posts in 2381 days


#13 posted 09-07-2016 02:10 PM

FWIW, When I wired my garage, I ended up installing a 125amp sub-panel and it has served well. HOWEVER, I have found that I truly need MORE breaker spots (read bigger amp box).

That said, IMO, go BIG on the sub-panel box. You will eventually find that you “need” for that unexpected new piece of equipment, lighting, more outlets, etc.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View derrick3636's profile

derrick3636

72 posts in 605 days


#14 posted 09-07-2016 02:51 PM



FWIW, When I wired my garage, I ended up installing a 125amp sub-panel and it has served well. HOWEVER, I have found that I truly need MORE breaker spots (read bigger amp box).

That said, IMO, go BIG on the sub-panel box. You will eventually find that you “need” for that unexpected new piece of equipment, lighting, more outlets, etc.

- HorizontalMike

Thank you for that picture and your response! That actually raises another question for me. I’m looking at parts pricing, and I’m seeing flush and surface mount breaker boxes. Yours looks to be all surface(am I mistaken?). Our main breaker panel is flush mounted. My ASSumption is that the sub would need to be flush mounted as well? Or would it be possible to transition from flush to a surface mount box, and then route everything through surface mounted conduit? I don’t know if this adds any ease to the job, but it would be an easier sell vs. ripping up our finished garage and running everything behind new Sheetrock.

I know I’m probably at the point where I should be talking to someone local regarding code compliance and whatnot. I’m just trying to get a general feel for what I’m looking at.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

700 posts in 854 days


#15 posted 09-07-2016 03:22 PM

Since your existing box is in the wall, you are probably going to have to cut into the wall anyway just to get the 50a wire from the main breaker to the sub-panel, unless you can somehow use the existing wire for the old hot tub. It might not be that much more difficult to go head and make a cutout for the sub panel and have it flush like the main panel as long as you don’t put it too far away. I am not an electrician but I am pretty sure that you can use conduit to surface mount both the 50 amp line as well as the 220 and 110 circuits that you add around your shop regardless of whether the sub-panel is flush or surface mounted, which would be a lot easier than cutting holes in the wall board and drilling holes in the studs. I think that most code also requires that you put steel plates behind the wall board on studs where you run the wire if it is not encased in conduit behind the wall.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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