Traveling post 9-11 in North America

That is why I like to fly General Aviation.

Do they book your rooms too?

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I feel for you, Bro…and I bet that many around here could share some horrific stories.

However…moronry has been in place in the hospitality business long before 9-11…likewise, inflexibility has always been a pre-requisite for employees at airline desks…

Best wishes on your return trip!

-- Living on the square...

AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! So it isn’t JUST me! Sorry to hear that Bob. Actually, if I was traveling with you, they’d have lost our luggage. I hope Linda is still got that LV spirit!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

I haven’t been on a plane since 9-11 and now I don’t want to. Guess I’ll get a BFR and renew my flight physical. What a bunch of crap!! All caused by fear. However, pretty valid fear. I watched the second plane hit the World Trade Center live. Scary!!!

-- Thos. Angle

I feel your pain Bob. I recently flew home from Phoenix and had to “abandon” a gift of after shave I received for Christmas. It seems that the 4.6 oz bottle exceeded the 3.2 oz limit for carry on luggage. Go figure. I could have checked it with my bags but they were already checked and that would have meant another trip through the joyous experience known as the security checkpoint. Of course, that would have meant missing my flight and that wasn’t going to happen. I appreciate security, but things have gotten a bit wacky of late.

-- Working at Woodworking http://www.VillageLaneFurniture.com

Thanks for the information Bob, we have have got to go through both the Canadian and US customs & imigration in the next few weeks, I hope that our journey does not turn into such a nightmare!

we have the all the same security measures in place here in Europe, but everything seems to go very quickly and smoothly, except for the UK, which is a nightmare from hell!

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

Hi Tony.
You’re the second person to tell me that the UK has made a mess of their security.
The biggest problem we face here is that the regulations are not implemented consistently from airport to airport. The staff seem not welll trained and relatively inflexible with even the smallest of problems.
You can drive across the border from the U.S. to Canada and vice versa carrying the same articles and there is no ban on them. I saw a young mother having to give up 3- 4 oz bottles of water for her infant. Later that same day I boarded an aircraft with a 350 ml bottle of root beer in my hand and nothing was said.
They made me shut off my cell phone going thru security then scolded me a the next gate for trying to shut off my phone.
I was now told it was not necessary????

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Man , I hear ya.. Two years ago I went to jamaica “family vacation”.. Getting there” was hell at the airport. I got singled out due to a cologne bottle in my carry on.. Major security threat. I was sent to a “special area” to have a talkin to, and a continuation of disrespect. While my family was watching three guards commenced with the search taking apart every thing in my bag and on my person. Mean while I’m thinking to myself. Man my family has been in this country for five generations or more. Fought in every war, except this one. And I’d be more concerned about the so called security They find for our airports. The focus seems to be way off.. My point is “they” the security powers that be seemed more concerned about me leaving then coming home… Bringing cologne out of the US. Mean while I managed to bring back a 3 foot 9 inch round log of “iron wood” home from jamaica, with not even the bat of an eyelash. Now I knew I wasn’t supposed to bring back “plant life” or wood that may contain a hiding bug. Most like gypsy moth’s get here by ships. You have to be very organized these days to travel and deal with a lot of oxymoron’s or just morons. I loved working with the iron wood and want more.. Hard to find I think they stopped farming it. Yet it’s all over jamaica they use it for every sculpture pot pipe and trinket they try to sell ya. Any hints on how to find Iron wood.. The good tropical type. I enjoyed your post . Thanks . Patrick

-- PJM.`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((º> ""BY HAMMER AND HAND ALL ARTS DO STAND""1785-1974 nyc Semper Fi, Patrick M

Sorry to hear about your travel troubles Bob. Hopefully (for the airport peoples sake anyway ;-) your return trip will go event free and safely. May the New Year bring you smoother sailing.

-- Better to say nothing and be thought the fool... then to speak and erase all doubt.

Bob see what happens when you try to bring back that 50’ coil of 12 gauge wire you are going to pick up at big blue or big orange.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

I had a flashback in 2004 when my wife and I when to Hong Kong. The first leg to LAX was pretty much the first part of Bob’s story. The second leg, was supposed to be 13 hours flight, but it was interupted by a blown engine on the 747, the pilots pretend nothing had happen, circling the pacific to dump fuel, and emergency landing with the fire department’s foam trucks escorting the landing and a mad rush from 300 passengers fighting for motel rooms and re-booking at midnight. It’s seemed so much funnier now.

-- Thuan

that’s horrible.. not sure what is worse, the airport or the hotel. I think I’m voting for the hotel, at least he airport has “security” as an excuse.

My mom (80) won’t fly any more. Prior to her hip surgeries (and even after) taking off and putting on her shoes is an ordeal. She’s had to remove her shoes every time. At one flight, a wheelchair had been arranged for her to make the process easier. There was a change of planes or something and she had to make the 3 mile walk without the wheelchair. Everyone was miles ahead of her and so she had no idea where to go. When she finally found the next station she could barely stand and nothing was done. Finally another elderly man in a wheelchair yelled at them to get her a chair. She says that she is treated like a criminal and her dignity is severely attacked.

-- ~ Debbie, Canada (http://www.execulink.com/~yohan)

Well that pretty much settles it then.

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Oh boy. Stay in line, be on time, and we’ll get along fine. Keep your feet off the grass, wash your hands, wipe your…. What a perfect place. Bob, how could you possibly go off on a holiday to another country and not do what the “feds,” told you to do. I’m tired of reading your sniveling. <g>

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Yeah I hear you Mot.
My problem probably started with my low reading and comprehension skills and then I got mixed up as the feds changed the rules at each of the different airports.
At any rate, I posted these experiences as a “heads up” for fellow LJ’s not knowing about the simple rules until now.

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Simple rules. Simple you say. Rules made by simpletons, I would guess. They just flash their badges and walk around the problems.

-- What happens in the workshop stays in the workshop. No wait that doesn't sound right. Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

Rules made by simpletons. A perfect description Karson. I don’t mind rules and security, but life would be so much simpler if they could just have the same rules at all the airports. Is consistency too much to ask for?

-- Working at Woodworking http://www.VillageLaneFurniture.com

Unfortunately most of these rules and regulations are reactive to situations that have taken place and are doing exactly what the terrorists want them to to do – and that is to disturb our normal way of life.

Poor training and “Monkey see and Monkey do” operatives and understaffing do not help the situation at airports. Lets face it if somebody wants to attack another aircraft in the future, then there are 1,000,001 different ways to do it, which have not been used yet.

All we can do now is support the rules and regualtion in force, even if we think most of them are a farce – hopefully things will get better in the future. Flying is still the safest form of transport on this planet. – I wonder if Harry Potter will lend me his broom?

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

Tony, it is the arbitrary implementation of the rules that is frustrating travelers.

You will be hard pressed to find a single person on the planet that wants any terrorist to succeed at any juncture just to ease their travel time.
We should talk “after” your trip to the west coast of Canada and the U.S. It’s difficult to cover all the factors unless you have the actual experience.
At any rate, from my perspective, the system is in very poor shape and is in need of a dramatic overhaul.

For those of you that are not aware the RCMP in Canada recently tasered a man from Poland who had been abandoned in one of this security hell holes for over 10 hours without any means to communicate with his captors.
He died from his injuries.
His mother who was to pick him up was sent away with the information that he was not on the flight!
Yes, I find this system lacking in several areas .

It seems like just another huge bureaucracy run by pygmies.

Cheers
Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

Well, most bureaucracies are where the mediocre go to prosper.

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

”...bureaucracies are where the mediocre go to prosper.” Tom, I love that line. Can I use it?

-- Working at Woodworking http://www.VillageLaneFurniture.com

Be my guest!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Y’all are right about the inconsistencies, especially with liquids. I can’t bring containers holding more than 3oz. of liquid, but I can have my 16oz. cup of coffee? Rules are fine; they just need to be consistently enforced.

I travel for work and have been in 38 countries just this year. If I got my feathers ruffled every time I had to deal with a bonehead from the TSA, I would be unable to fly. The insanity created by our government is so silly and non-functional. They have prevented us from keeping our dignity as weshow off the hole in our socks as we take off our shoes, they have allowed us to show off all of our new electronics for everyone to see, and given us the occasional thrill of the body frisk by a burly guy who seems to enjoy it a little more than he should as he grabs your package asking what it is.

Now you cant take extra batteries on the plane if they are not in your device already. No more dvds on the 15 hour flights to the other side of the planet.

This is all an attempt to make us think that we are safe. This on a plane that carries cargo that is unchecked and faces far worse security breaches than my smelly shoes.

All that being said, I put up with it all the time and the only way to fix it is by electing a new group of people to office who may just screw this all up a little less than the bozos in charge now.

-- making sawdust....

I think I am gonna buy 20 acres, a mule and hide!

I had to work for TSA after being after a layoff. This was the bigesr bunch of idiots I have ever worked for. The incompents the govern,ment said could not cover security came over as mgmt in TSA. The dub ass holes I have ever worked with. So don’t be suprised how you are handled.

-- WOOD/DON (...one has the right to ones opinion but not the right to ones own facts...)

You’re right TopE5…we are not being forced to fly.

Hi Bob

I dont know if you meant for this to be funny but I chuckled the whole way through the read. I know it frustrating but sitting where I am it’s funny.

On a trip to Jamacia I had a cock roach infested room on the 14th floor as well and the only day I needed to make a phone call home was the only day the elevators didnt work.

I inquire at the front desk as to how I make a call and am told to do it from my room.

I climb the 26 flights of stairs in 100 degree temps and when attempting to use the phone for long distance I get the same lady at the front desk who tells me I need to leave her a deposit (why didnt she tell me that before I climbed 26 flights?)............down I go to leave some $$$$$ and up I go to make the call and my X wife hangs up on me…............call again and no doubt I get the front desk and she needs another deposit.

I did finally make the call

I feel for you Bob!

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

I might add that the return flight home.

Fly all the way from Kingston Jamacia to Toronto Canada only to find out the airport is closed, then off to Winnipeg and its closed…................back to Miame to refuel and customs wont let us off the plane…...we sit for three hours in an aircraft with no AC and everyone inclusing me stinks…...we fly back to Kingston Jamacia where we get complimetary Army barracks with chicken backs for food….....22 hours in an airplane.

Flew to BC for some downhill skiing. ..............wait and wait and wait after all the security checks, finally told to board the plane and right at the door to the airplane we are told to turn around and back into the airport where we watch an entirely different group of travellers board the plane that should have been ours and then told that our trip is cancelled due to weather as we watch, what was our plane,.......fly away?

Drove across the USA border with daughter

custom agent insists my daughter is actually my wife…..........I tell her that in Canada we are not allowed to marry our children

strip searched and interogated…...we are finally allowed to enter the USA after a 4 hour delay.

and now the Canadian custom agents have guns?

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

Actually I was writing with my tongue in cheek Roman and at the same time warning fellow travelers to be wary of the inconsistencies in the security system.
The thread got derailed along the way with insinuations of political motivations and advice not to use the system if we found it flawed etc. etc.
Not at all what I was expecting here in the coffee room at Lj’s.

I’ll probably think twice about posting an off topic from here on given the current atmosphere.

Cheers

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

My favorite was when we were taxiing out to the runway and this woman up front decides she don’t want to fly today after all. Kinda claustrophobic, or who knows? Don’t matter cuz the pilot returned us to the tower, she was offloaded…and then we got to wait while they found her suitcase, etc. Made it to the next airport with just enough time to get on the next flight.

Oh it gets better…Now on this flight, there’s this joker sitting in front of me…he’s in the “wing exit” seat so the stew is giving him instructions on opening the door in case of emergency. He says “No”. He’s not gonna do it. She then politely tries to persuade him to reconsider…he still says NO and even tossed in a couple expletives to boot! So I asked the stew if I could trade with him (I’ll get to be the first one out!) and she says “No”. So she has “MR. I’m not gonna do it” trade seats with this fellow from the back. Now he gets to be the last one out. And the fellow from the back gets a better seat!

Why is it all the nutcases come out when I travel?

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

Bob #2, your last post exactly explains my motivation for wanting 20 acres and mule. Also, hence the reason, why I don’t post or hang out at LJ like I used to. I try real hard to just look at the projects and ignore the rest. But, every now and then on a visit something will catch my eye. Sad, I have to find more clods chewing the board in the barn. Oh, well. Off to my little adventures.

Buckskin:

Forgive me if I am not understanding you but you do seem to be talking in tongues.

This thread was started OT (tic) as a heads up to travelers and started to take a bit of nasty streak with anecdotal evidence to support a different perspective . In a healthy debate that’s fine but when folks start tossing around derrogatives and expletives I feel I must be in the wrong saloon.
I am interested in hearing what you said above explained as I can’t make any sense of it nor your references to running away from society and buying a mule.

Do you have some information that the rest of us do not?

Regards

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

are you kidding ?? i thought this was the best off topic post ive read since tom (mot) got his car stole !
what i cant imagine is how or why the thread ended up where it is now . maybe im spending too much time chewin board and not enuff time milkin the mule ? anyway i loved the post thanks for spending your time on it bob

Bob,

Sorry to hear about your unpleasant travel experience. Your title says it all, “Traveling post 9-11.”

I knew it that day (9/11/2001), that a lot of things in life would never be the same – and they aren’t.

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

Hey great idea, Mot. I love popcorn too.

Let’s do some synchronized popcorn eating ;^D

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

Again we go off the woodworking topic and again things get misconstrued. I wonder why that is. Not able to hear tonal inflections in a voice? Not able to see furrowed eyebrows or a smile on the persons face when they’re making their comments? I find this fascinating and somewhat relevant to Mot’s post about developing friends (and I guess enemies) on the site and the internet.

The few times I’ve seen irritation on this site is when the main post went off topic. Every time. Perhaps we should do a better job of watching out for that. Or just stick to woodworking.

-- Better to say nothing and be thought the fool... then to speak and erase all doubt.

I dunno guys, but “The Coffee Shop” side of this forum gives us a chance to shoot the bull about… whatever. Adds a little variety to an already friendly atmosphere, ya know?

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

Yeah, I don’t see anything wrong with a “bitch post.” I’m not alone in that club, but there are others that just don’t see it for what it is. I think, Chip, is absolutely correct in these things turning volatile when they stray off topic. My mother usually says, “I know a man with a red beard.” That informs my family that we have strayed off topic and are bordering on fighting based on irrelevant stances taken on an imaginary topic that has strayed from the original discussion….

So, I know a man with a red beard!

-- You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation. (Plato)

on the lighter side, heres a tale told to me by my eldest brother.

he is 6’ 3” and sports a fair girth around the mid section. has a full head of silver white hair and a beautiful beard to match with complimenatary bifocal glasses (little round ones)

On a flight from Windsor to Ottawa.

Sitting alone before take off and just before Christmas this year a little girl came up to him and this conversation happened.

“Hey Mister….....I know you”

Looking down over his glasses he replies ” No little lady I dont think you do”

“Can I sit beside you?”.......said the girl

“I think you might have to ask your mother if thats OK”......the mother nods and the little girl sits next to bro

“Do you pay the elves?” she asks

Big brother opens his wallet and examines his drivers license photo only to discover that he does in fact look like Santa and with a big smile decides to go along with it.

“Yes I do”

“Is it cold up there?”

“Yes it is”

the conversation continues for the short flight and in the end the little girl says to big brother

“I hope you bring presents to my brothers and my sisters and my Mom and Dad but dont bring me anything!”

“Why dont you want anything?”

“Because I got the best present ever, I gotto sit beside Santa Claus for the whole trip and meet the real Santa and nobody else ever got to do that!”

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

Hey Bob,

where in the heck is North Amerca – I could not find it on the map; but I have just posted a blog on my trip to North America – http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/Tikka/blog/3276 An LJs Tale of 2 cities (YVR & SFO) – Part 1 – There and Back again!

-- Tony - All things are possible, just some things are more difficult than others! - SKYPE: Heron2005 (http://www.poydatjatuolit.fi)

I don’t fly. There arent as many terrorists hijacking a bus, and security is a lot more lenient. Waitaminnit, i don’t travel by bus either. I don’t go anywhere.

-- http://ye-olde-cabinet-shoppe.com/

Obi,

That’s the safest way to not go anywhere ;^D

-- Tom, Surfside Beach, SC - Romans 8:28

Tony: ”where in the heck is North Amerca – I could not find it on the map;”

Sorry I just took the spelling off a note pad in the Oval office. <g>

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

What kills me is that you can’t take something as simple as a bottle of water through security. All they have to do is ask me to take a drink and they’ll see it’s perfectly safe.

Now, with laptop batteries catching fire how hard would it be to rig one up to do so in flight? Try telling the business passengers that they can’t take their laptops. No one in their right mind would check them because that’s a sure way to never see them again.

My wife and I flew out to Seattle last summer. She forgot the rules and had to turn over a bottle of perfume she bought when we were in Hawaii. It wouldn’t be so bad if they offered some service to mail it home for a few bucks.

I had to fly to LA one month after 9-11. I had the worst scare in my life when fly back home. Never before had I seen the lavatory occupied lights on during taxiing and takeoff. My mind was racing of thoughts that someone was hiding in the lavatory pulling out items that had been stashed by flightline personnel. Come to find out the stewardesses had locked the doors from the outside to prevent anyone hiding in the lavatories.

What saddens me about the whole situation is that in the end the terrorists did exactly what they set out to do. They scared us all, reminding us that we are not as safe as we think we are. Unfortunately the fixes put in place have intruded into our rights as citizens. I think the founding fathers are turning in their graves at some of the actions taken as knee jerk responses. Our increased security is an illusion. Somebody determined enough will find a way to harm citizens. My guess is that airplanes will not be the method of choice for any future attacks.

-- Owen Johnson - aka IowaWoodcrafter