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Bleed through in veneer?

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Forum topic by SteveMI posted 06-03-2010 03:28 PM 3372 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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SteveMI

956 posts in 2762 days


06-03-2010 03:28 PM

Topic tags/keywords: veneering question

I made my first attempt at trying to veneer with vacuum and the process worked great except that it seems the glue soaked through the veneer in places and has created a stain. I used titebond II and left it under vacuum overnight. The staining is at two edges of one side and center of the other side.

This was just a 5” by 6” test and no real project was put at risk. Same veneer on both sides.

My intention with the gluing was to make sure the entire surface was covered and I didn’t squeegee off any glue before vacuum clamping.

My thought is that the glue stain would cause problem with any later finish.

What should I do different next time??

Steve.


12 replies so far

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CharlieM1958

16244 posts in 3686 days


#1 posted 06-03-2010 03:35 PM

I don’t know what most of the guys and gals use, but Titebond makes a veneer glue that is formulated for that purpose. I’ve used it a number of times, and even though I’ve had some minor bleed-through, there was never any staining.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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Kristoffer

675 posts in 2684 days


#2 posted 06-03-2010 05:02 PM

Here is a great site that a1Jim directed me to when I had questions about veneering. http://www.joewoodworker.com/

I’ve only had about two hours of shop time in the past four weeks, so I haven’t had a chance to see what I’m going to have luck with yet. But, I’m DYING to use up some of the veneers from the BBQ.

-- Cheers and God Bless

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a1Jim

115207 posts in 3045 days


#3 posted 06-03-2010 05:06 PM

You will be better off with a thicker glue as Charlie said and the web site I set Kristoffer is a good source for all veneering questions.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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SteveMI

956 posts in 2762 days


#4 posted 06-03-2010 05:18 PM

Jim / Kristoffer – I really appreciate joewoodworker site and have spent quite some time there over couple years. Only thing is that once Joe sets his mind on something that is all he will write about and recommend. For vacuum clamping glue, he only wants to recommend Better Bond. In the past, before going more commercial, he touched on all kinds of vacuum methods and now is slanted to the ones he sells in kits. A real wealth of knowledge and he has to run a business along with the site so I am very proud of what he does for a sharing woodworker. Many people would never attempt veneer if it were not for him.

Steve.

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SteveMI

956 posts in 2762 days


#5 posted 06-03-2010 07:51 PM

Charlie – just returned with the titebond “veneer” glue. Will put another piece in the bag and check in the morning.

Steve.

View Ger21's profile

Ger21

1047 posts in 2599 days


#6 posted 06-05-2010 01:10 AM

Some veneer’s are more prone to bleed through than others. Especially figured veneer’s where the figure is actually partially end grain, where the glue can flow right through. I always use Titebond Cold Press Veneer Glue. The only time I’ve had bleed through was with curly maple.

-- Gerry, http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/index.html http://www.jointcam.com

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SteveMI

956 posts in 2762 days


#7 posted 06-05-2010 02:21 AM

Just left the garage with the new experiment in the bag. Titebond Cold Press Veneer Glue and squeegeed the excess. I like this product better for spreading on the veneer since it is thinner. Used a metal scraper to spread and squeegee that made the spread more even. Will see in the morning.

Question for next time, are you suppose to put the glue on both veneer and substrate or is just on the veneer adequate?

Steve.

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Ger21

1047 posts in 2599 days


#8 posted 06-05-2010 02:46 AM

Never apply glue to the veneer. Substrate only. The moisture in the glue will cause it to expand. Sometimes it’ll roll up into a tube before you know it.

-- Gerry, http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/index.html http://www.jointcam.com

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SteveMI

956 posts in 2762 days


#9 posted 06-05-2010 07:48 PM

The saga continues. Only good thing is that bleeding and staining were gone.

Gerry – I’ll remember that point about curling. This time I am only working with 5” by 6” segments and got lucky.

I must have been too frugal with the glue using the flat scraper and trying to judge a even film. Veneer at most corners have gaps between it an substrate. The veneer on one could be seperated from the substrate with a putty knife using minimal effort. Out of 4 substrates (veneer both sides) none were perfect.

I am going to try a notched tooth spreader for the next try to increase the amount of glue. I am afraid of a brush due to leaving hairs in the surface.

Luckily this is for my experience only and not anything for delivery or with a time requirement.

Steve.

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Ger21

1047 posts in 2599 days


#10 posted 06-05-2010 10:48 PM

Are you using a caul on top? What is the substrate?

I’ve used both mdf and plywood as substrates, and spread the glue with a 3 or 4” foam paint roller. You can rinse them out and put them in a ziploc bag if you’ll be using it within a few days. I’m usually doing larger pieces, so I pour the glue right out of the gallon jug and spread it with the roller. I try to get it about 1/32” thick, or maybe a little thinner. A lot of the moisture soaks into both the substrate and veneer, so I don’t get a lot of squeeze out, but you do want some. Also, I recommend doing both sides at once, and then standing it on edge to dry after removing from the bag, or, if doing a lot of parts, stack and sticker them. They’ll have a lot of moisture in them, and need to dry evenly on both sides, or they’ll warp badly.

I also consider a caul mandatory, to provide even pressure.

-- Gerry, http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/index.html http://www.jointcam.com

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SteveMI

956 posts in 2762 days


#11 posted 06-08-2010 01:39 AM

Gerry – Substrate was 1/4” ply. This was only a proof of concept test.

I did some destructive testing on the disaster results and saw that the edges and corners were the least amount of adhesion. My conclusion was that the squeegee application didn’t leave enough glue on the surfaces.

Latest experiment applied glue to substrate more liberal than the disaster results. This time I made sure there was a visible film over the entire surface. I did see where at some points the glue rapidly soaked into the substrate with the film being thinner. So, I waited minute or two to add where needed and make sure the glue didn’t suck into the substrate leaving a void. Same thing on both sides of substrate. Results are as good as my Titebond II, but without the bleeding.

Bottom line is that nobody should be afraid of trying to veneer for a personal or shop project. There are some simple basics to follow that are not that hard. Large panels and cabinets may be another thing.

I’m going to blog my experiment in couple days because it was done on the very cheap and produced a better result than I though I could get.

Steve.

View sh2005's profile

sh2005

97 posts in 2704 days


#12 posted 06-08-2010 02:41 PM

I’ll be interested in reading your blog on it. I am working on a project that will have veneer panels and I haven’t done veneering before.

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