LumberJocks

Screwed (Quite LIterally) By Delta - Once Again

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by Kazooman posted 08-20-2016 08:58 PM 2509 views 0 times favorited 42 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

623 posts in 1412 days


08-20-2016 08:58 PM

I recently posted a question asking for a good source for replacement knives for a Delta 37-190 6” jointer and got a lot of good advice. I ended up ordering a set from American National Knife and they arrived very quickly. Now I have a new problem, although it is one I have faced before. Several of the knife screws in the cutter head have really seized up and I am having trouble removing them. Right now they are soaking in some penetrating oil and I have to go out tomorrow to buy a new 8mm wrench.

This happened to me once before with this machine. I actually had to cut the heads off two of the screws with a hacksaw blade and I was then able to get the shanks out. I would hate to go through that ordeal again, but I might have to. I have ten of the knife screws left from that effort, but I thought I should order a full set of twelve.

You guessed it, it is another part that has been discontinued by Delta and I have not been able to find any suppliers that still have them. I haven’t been able to determine if they are the same as the screws for any other jointer head so I am currently stumped. Does anyone have any suggestions for a source? Anyone know the thread size? The heads are metric. The jointer came with an junk 8mm wrench that broke the first time I tried to use it.

Perhaps this is just Delta’s way of forcing me to buy a Shelix head. I am not certain that this jointer is worth that investment.

By the way, the original Delta knives and one set of replacements I bought years ago have a secondary bevel on the grind. The American National knives do not. I’m not certain just how important that is, if at all.


42 replies so far

View cebfish's profile

cebfish

129 posts in 2147 days


#1 posted 08-20-2016 09:09 PM

Take one to Fastenal and have them match what you have

View nightguy's profile

nightguy

213 posts in 122 days


#2 posted 08-20-2016 09:16 PM

When installing the bolts get some Never Seez and put it on them.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

623 posts in 1412 days


#3 posted 08-20-2016 09:22 PM

I hear ya on the anti-seize. I should have thought to do that when I had this problem the first time. I won’t make that mistake again!

Cebfish: Thanks for the suggestion. There is a Fastenal place nearby that might be a good source.

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1431 posts in 2222 days


#4 posted 08-20-2016 09:24 PM

Use anti-seize on the screw threads.

-- BOVILEXIA: The urge to moo at cows from a moving vehicle.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4202 posts in 1658 days


#5 posted 08-20-2016 10:01 PM

Come on man.. Delta screwed you?!? Many of the parts supplied by manufacturers are just off the shelf hardware store items. For example, I don’t know how many bearings I’ve seen that are listed as discontinued or ‘obsolete’ from the manufacturer or after-market suppliers that are easily obtained from a bearing house. Problem is that they want you to buy from them, so they don’t tell you what the industry standard part number is. It is not exclusive to Delta – they all play that game.

Case in point… AFAIK, what you are looking for is nothing more than a very short 1/4”x28tpi hex head bolt. However, finding one short enough might be a bit more difficult, but they are easy to grind down to size if needed – such as this example found on the tube: Delta Knife Screw 1340196

Apparently, they are available from Renovo , but at over $3 a pop. Other places like 1800toolrepair had them listed at over $1 a piece. It’s no wonder they don’t want you to know that you can run down to Tractor Supply and pick up a pound of them for a couple bucks :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View robscastle's profile

robscastle

3390 posts in 1663 days


#6 posted 08-20-2016 10:21 PM

I am not convienced you have been screwed by Delta,
If the problem has happened before it may well have been caused by the person who is changing the blades for you on your Delta 37-190 6”

The fact you have to go buy a wrench is also a concern as its part of the equipment schedule and the fact that its missing also indicates that the blades have been incorrectly installed.

Your planer is no different to almost every other 6” planer available and the blade maintenance installation setting and change out will be almost the same regardless of the brand.

As indicated by the other LJs you could use anti seize on the screws, this is very good advice however doesnt help in the current task.

Planer blades should be installed using a torque wrench and this can be a simple as the length of the tool and using your judgement to ensure the bolts are all the same installation torque, or a “crows foot torque wrench if you can buy one.
there is documented evidence showing the effect of overtightening the screws in the head available on the net so if you havent seen the articles already.

There is also a table showing the recommended torque settings for various size bolts indicating both dry and lubricated, of which anti seize is.

I checked your operators manual and Delta do not include these figures in the service info, and thats a oversight by Delta in a big way.

The planer allthough not high volume use tool in the workshop in most cases needs to be ready to serve at a moments notice, so it may be worthwile spraying perserving oil on the cutter head after use to prevent any environmental issues effecting servicing. Dont be concerned about residue comtaminating material as the rotating speed will fling it off before you introduce your stock, if it dosent the cutters will remove it anyway.

A helical or spiral head.
You will not reget installing a new head the adjustment and set up time saved alone and piece of mind knowing that everything is perfectly aligned will impress along with the results of finish and loss of noise.

Conclusion: Torpedo 7 sells a small torque wrench suitable for your task but you will ave to buy a crowsfoot as well.

I hope you get your planer purring away soon let us all know how you go please, as having to take to it with a hack saw is not good!

Additional note: I also checked your profile I see you joined in 2013 but have never posted any projects, meaning you have never made anything to post either completed or as a Blog this usually warrants me deleting the reply but in this case there may be others who could benefit so I will leave it this time, .....get to work!

-- Regards Robert

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

423 posts in 584 days


#7 posted 08-20-2016 10:38 PM



Come on man.. Delta screwed you?!? Many of the parts supplied by manufacturers are just off the shelf hardware store items. For example, I don t know how many bearings I ve seen that are listed as discontinued or obsolete from the manufacturer or after-market suppliers that are easily obtained from a bearing house. Problem is that they want you to buy from them, so they don t tell you what the industry standard part number is. It is not exclusive to Delta – they all play that game.

Case in point… AFAIK, what you are looking for is nothing more than a very short 1/4”x28tpi hex head bolt. However, finding one short enough might be a bit more difficult, but they are easy to grind down to size if needed – such as this example found on the tube: Delta Knife Screw 1340196

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Yup…why do people think that ANY manufacturer would bother to produce tiny inconsequential parts that will be used on a relatively small number of products instead of designing the machine to use mass produced parts that don’t matter? I have 3 hardware stores in my small town and they all have those “tray” bins of just about every conceivable nut/bolt/screw that you will ever need (and we have a Fastenal not far away). Sometimes not cheap but certainly much cheaper than OEM even before considering shipping. Now back to the case in point…the screws are typically hard to remove for a reason…I find them much easier to remove with an impact driver (air or cordless). Being able to put downward pressure while the tool does its work has removed a lot of curse words from the experience. As an aside, was time to replace blades on my ZTR mower last week. Breaker bar was not enough (to the point where I called the dealer and asked about whether they were reverse thread which is typical on some stuff). Oiled up my old impact driver and 30 seconds later those blades were off even using my little pancake compressor.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

623 posts in 1412 days


#8 posted 08-20-2016 10:45 PM

MrUnix:

I usually agree with most of what you have to offer, but quite frankly, I am so pissed off at Delta for failing to provide any support for the thousands of dollars I have invested in their machines that I have to differ with you. I have rigged up too many repairs with J-B Weld to not be more than a bit up in arms about yet another problem.

Yes, 1800toolrepair USED TO SELL THESE SCREWS, for over a buck apiece. Over a buck apiece!!! Are you kidding me????? They, like everyone else, are out of stock. Thanks for the great tip on a supply. Absolutely no help whatsoever.

The Youtube video is great! Just what I needed. A tutorial on how to take a too long screw with an over sized head and cut them off and grind the heads down to make them fit. You know….. I could have thought of that and I could have done it. However…. you know what? I paid a good deal of money for the jointer and I fully anticipated that the company would stand behind it and continue to offer simple replacement parts like screws. You bet I think Delta screwed me again. I shouldn’t have to make my own knife screws or spend a lot of time scouring the Internet trying to find the specs on the parts and a source.

As to your case in point, You may think that this is simply a “very short” 1/4” x 28tpi screw. The head, at least is METRIC. I confirmed that. It is exactly 8mm. The wrench that came with the jointer to remove the screws is an 8mm wrench. I have not has the opportunity to determine what the threads are, but I would assume they are also metric. My local Tractor Supply tends to deal in parts in English dimensions. My local Ace hardware store does better on metric parts, but they are also limited.

Your comment about parts such as bearings being common off the shelf parts is appropriate. However, in the case of something as simple as this screw all it would take is for Delta to tell you up front what the specs on the part are. For example (apologies to all of the SawStop haters) the parts diagrams for my SawStop table saw give the precise details for every nut, bolt, and washer in the machine. I do not need to buy any spare parts from them. I can easily find parts from other vendors.

View nightguy's profile

nightguy

213 posts in 122 days


#9 posted 08-20-2016 11:36 PM

robscastle, just because someone has not posted pics of projects they made does not mean they have not made anything. I dont post any, and I made all my furniture and other things, clocks, bowls, trays ect, except my recliner, mattress and box spring.

View distrbd's profile

distrbd

2227 posts in 1906 days


#10 posted 08-21-2016 12:00 AM

Kazooman, could you not drill the old screws out, re-tap the holes and use imperial screws one size up ?

-- Ken from Ontario, Canada

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

623 posts in 1412 days


#11 posted 08-21-2016 01:40 AM


Kazooman, could you not drill the old screws out, re-tap the holes and use imperial screws one size up ?

- distrbd

Yes, but it is not a question of drilling out the old holes. The screws are seated in a very narrow slot and it really does seem that they were never made of the best material. It is very easy to round over the corners of the heads when trying to loosen the screws. The fix I used the last time was to pull the cutter and use a hand held hack saw blade to cut the head off the screw. When I got the clamping bar out of the cutter head I was able to grab onto the shaft of the screw with a pair of vise grips and remove it. If I have to go to the screw cutting route again I will use a Dremel tool and a cutoff wheel.

As for Robscastles suggestion that the individual who installed the blades screwed up, the first instance I encountered was the first time I tried to change the factory installed blades. I did not over tighten the screws, no local service tech over tightened the screws, they CAME that way from the factory. Yes, as he suggested, a wrench WAS a part of the original accessories that came with the jointer. It was a cheap stamped out sheet metal part and the shorter leg of the wrench broke off before any bolts were removed. I purchased a much higher quality wrench, but it was still not up to the task. As I indicated, I had to saw through a few bolts to get them out of the head.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

623 posts in 1412 days


#12 posted 08-21-2016 02:00 AM



robscastle, just because someone has not posted pics of projects they made does not mean they have not made anything. I dont post any, and I made all my furniture and other things, clocks, bowls, trays ect, except my recliner, mattress and box spring.

- nightguy

Thanks, Nightguy,

I was trying to think of a polite way to say that I really don’t feel the need to post projects that I make for my personal use and to give to others as gifts. I am not a professional trying to do woodworking for a living and I am not looking for any “attaboy’s”. I believe have a good track record of responding to questions from others with good advice and links to resources. I have posted numerous pictures of pieces I have made in the course of responding to various threads. I frequent this forum to learn techniques, get information about new innovations, and perhaps provide a bit of advice to others when I can. When I joined this forum I was never under any impression that there was a requirement to post any projects as an entry fee to enter into the discussion. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Robscastle’s quote “this usually warrants me deleting the reply but in this case there may be others who could benefit so I will leave it this time” says it all for me. Thank you for leaving those comments up for the benefit of the rest of us. By the way…. the machine in question is a jointer as I stated, not a planer as suggested.

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3178 posts in 2236 days


#13 posted 08-21-2016 02:41 AM

Once you get the screws out, speak with Fastenal or other company and get hardened allen head screws. These will hold up much better and be removable.

Some of the manufacturors use off the shelf screws and they are too soft for long term use

-- David in Damascus, MD

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7902 posts in 1839 days


#14 posted 08-21-2016 03:04 AM

Buy a good quality wrench (not Chinesium) that won’t spread when you torque on it, buy some anti-seize, and don’t crank the screws so tight you break something. And sell all your old Delta machines because you keep breaking them and they are never going to stock parts again for those old machines. Replace it with a brand new machine because no one else is making parts for their old machines either. Best of luck.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

5721 posts in 2827 days


#15 posted 08-21-2016 04:09 AM

If you have access to an impact driver it may also help!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

showing 1 through 15 of 42 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com