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Forum topic by nightguy posted 08-04-2016 02:22 PM 1075 views 0 times favorited 35 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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nightguy

213 posts in 130 days


08-04-2016 02:22 PM

You all drive me nuts here with your wood movement! Table tops move ect. If using kilned dried lumber, seal the end grain where most moister comes in to affect wood width changes, live in a house with AC, and even open windows in the fall and spring, there is nothing to worry about. Movement specs is for unfinished wood, in an open environment, and they dont tell you there range of humidity it goes through.
I have never had a problem with table tops.
Store bought table tops are fasten tightly to the frames/skirts.
How many here have wooden topped work benches in a garage, or shop that is not environmentally controlled?
They are mounted tightly to the base, any issues?????
Get passed this wood movement. It is boring and redundant to hear it here to every Newbie building a table. It is useless info. Unless that is all you can say, and useless/inaccurate info. Even raw wood for a pick nick table out doors in the rain does not move that much as you Nay Sayers tend to Preach here.


35 replies so far

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

700 posts in 692 days


#1 posted 08-04-2016 02:38 PM

Hi DKV

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

1154 posts in 180 days


#2 posted 08-04-2016 02:44 PM



Hi DKV

- AZWoody

DKV ?

-- Tony Reinholds,Pa. REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2200 posts in 948 days


#3 posted 08-04-2016 02:48 PM

Hi DKV

Ya think???.....11 posts in 1 day.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View IHRedRules's profile

IHRedRules

93 posts in 944 days


#4 posted 08-04-2016 03:53 PM

Try gluing a bread board end on to a wide piece and let me know how that works long term. 99.9% chance that something gives.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

147 posts in 284 days


#5 posted 08-04-2016 04:03 PM

I have seen the result of ignoring the effects of change in humidity far too many times on this set of forums and several others to dismiss the problem. Some 35 or 40 years ago, I experienced the problem myself before I learned better. I agree that the issue is often overblown but there are calculators which accurately predict changes in wood dimensions with changing humidity and they are fairly accurate. If the piece is varnished or painted, that simply slows down the reaction. It doesn’t prevent it. One can’t always keep a piece of furniture in a tightly controlled environment.

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7935 posts in 1848 days


#6 posted 08-04-2016 04:12 PM

A plus trolling, you already have a couple fish on the line.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View rhett's profile

rhett

734 posts in 3135 days


#7 posted 08-04-2016 04:16 PM

Wood moves, FACT.

If expansion and contraction are destroying your projects, you can’t blame wood. You can only blame yourself, for not taking this fact into consideration.

-- Doubt kills more dreams than failure.

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

693 posts in 1266 days


#8 posted 08-04-2016 04:22 PM

This is good news.Every wood worker should test what they read or hear.Its the only way to learn from experience.
Then when someone asks you to make a table or wood cabinet.They will have confidence when they build.
It’s way more enjoyable to have your own knowledge in your head then relying on Utube or a bunch strangers on a woodworking forum.

Aj

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4859 posts in 2281 days


#9 posted 08-04-2016 05:08 PM

Moisture content in wood changes whether it has a finish applied or not. Lacquer for example will slow the movement of moisture in and out of the lumber, but does not stop it.

Numerous examples abound relating to cracked table tops when wood movement wasn’t accounted for.
It is most glaring when the end grain is bound, such as tops wrapped with trim or applied breadboard ends.

I’m not sure you’re going to change anyone’s mind on this topic.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

822 posts in 388 days


#10 posted 08-05-2016 12:36 AM

nightguy,

Regarding your questions:

How many here have wooden topped work benches in a garage, or shop that is not environmentally controlled?

They are mounted tightly to the base, any issues?????

Back in the day in the late 1980s, I gave no thought to wood movement when I built my workbench. I glued up hard maple to form a top that is 1-1/2” thick and 28” wide x ~60” long. I wanted an elegant look so I edge banded the perimeter with red oak. The corners were joined with well-fitting half-blind dovetailed joints and the banding was glued to the maple perimeter. All exposed surfaces were received several coats of finish. The top was lagged to the base in nice tight fitting holes.

The workbench has been at home in two basement workshops and two garage workshops. Its current home is in a garage with occasion wintertime heat in Ohio. The basement workshops stayed comfortable without auxiliary heating or cooling. Neither basement was especially humid. The first garage workshop had no climate control in NW Arkansas.

It was not too long after completing the workbench, cannot remember how long, that I noticed the dovetailed joints opened up 1/16” at each corner and there is some checking in the field of the table, though not too bad. I attribute these defects to the maple top changing dimensions across its width.

Since that time I have provided the ability for solid wood tops to expand and contact on my various projects. Every now and again I hear a distinct pop which I attribute to a table top changing size and forcing movement within the fastening system I employed.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

5734 posts in 2836 days


#11 posted 08-05-2016 12:36 AM

Everyone knows wood expands and contracts with humidity and temperature.
Otherwise, why do wooden items breakdown when they are outside?

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View nightguy's profile

nightguy

213 posts in 130 days


#12 posted 08-05-2016 01:16 AM



nightguy,

Regarding your questions:

How many here have wooden topped work benches in a garage, or shop that is not environmentally controlled?

They are mounted tightly to the base, any issues?????

Back in the day in the late 1980s, I gave no thought to wood movement when I built my workbench. I glued up hard maple to form a top that is 1-1/2” thick and 28” wide x ~60” long. I wanted an elegant look so I edge banded the perimeter with red oak. The corners were joined with well-fitting half-blind dovetailed joints and the banding was glued to the maple perimeter. All exposed surfaces were received several coats of finish. The top was lagged to the base in nice tight fitting holes.

The workbench has been at home in two basement workshops and two garage workshops. Its current home is in a garage with occasion wintertime heat in Ohio. The basement workshops stayed comfortable without auxiliary heating or cooling. Neither basement was especially humid. The first garage workshop had no climate control in NW Arkansas.

It was not too long after completing the workbench, cannot remember how long, that I noticed the dovetailed joints opened up 1/16” at each corner and there is some checking in the field of the table, though not too bad. I attribute these defects to the maple top changing dimensions across its width.

Since that time I have provided the ability for solid wood tops to expand and contact on my various projects. Every now and again I hear a distinct pop which I attribute to a table top changing size and forcing movement within the fastening system I employed.

- JBrow

I guess I did not explain my original Thread enough, you are constraining it with your other wood border, just like who posted here about gluing bread board ends to a table. My point if you just face joint and seal it, in normal living conditions, no issues.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1812 posts in 606 days


#13 posted 08-05-2016 02:15 AM

Wood only moves at night when no one’s watching. Has anyone ever actually seen it move? Me neither but when I leave on especially humid Summer mornings, my door’s always a little tighter than it is during the winter. Damned wood gremlins.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View nightguy's profile

nightguy

213 posts in 130 days


#14 posted 08-05-2016 06:43 AM


Wood only moves at night when no one s watching. Has anyone ever actually seen it move? Me neither but when I leave on especially humid Summer mornings, my door s always a little tighter than it is during the winter. Damned wood gremlins.

- HokieKen

Turn on our AC at night to 69, go to work and turn it up to 77, your door wont stick, and the place will still be cool when you come home, Delta Effect.
Same as the winter time, heat on when you come home, lower at night and while gone for work or dont you have AC?
Exterior doors if wood suffer through both sides of the environment

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

607 posts in 2551 days


#15 posted 08-05-2016 10:53 AM



You all drive me nuts here with your wood movement! Table tops move ect. If using kilned dried lumber, seal the end grain where most moister comes in to affect wood width changes, live in a house with AC, and even open windows in the fall and spring, there is nothing to worry about. Movement specs is for unfinished wood, in an open environment, and they dont tell you there range of humidity it goes through.
I have never had a problem with table tops.
Store bought table tops are fasten tightly to the frames/skirts.
How many here have wooden topped work benches in a garage, or shop that is not environmentally controlled?
They are mounted tightly to the base, any issues?????
Get passed this wood movement. It is boring and redundant to hear it here to every Newbie building a table. It is useless info. Unless that is all you can say, and useless/inaccurate info. Even raw wood for a pick nick table out doors in the rain does not move that much as you Nay Sayers tend to Preach here.

- nightguy

You have no clue….

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

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