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LN No.4 Smoothing Plan vs LN 62 LAP

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Forum topic by Civilsurf posted 08-02-2016 10:16 PM 496 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Civilsurf

11 posts in 160 days


08-02-2016 10:16 PM

Topic tags/keywords: hand plane

I am a beginner woodworker and have the budget for both No. 4 and No.62. Is it really necessary to get both planes at the same time? Any recommendation?

-- Shawn, Singapore


16 replies so far

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

759 posts in 1463 days


#1 posted 08-02-2016 10:44 PM

What kind of power tools do you have? The common advice is that if you are working with material that has been jointed and planed by power tools, the jack plane is less of a need, as you’re basically ready to start smoothing with your No 4.

If you work a lot with slabs or wide panels that you need to flatten or adjust but you can’t fit through your planer/jointer, then the jack is more useful.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View jdmaher's profile

jdmaher

384 posts in 2047 days


#2 posted 08-02-2016 11:03 PM

Get the No. 4. Wait on the 62.

Smoothing (the No. 4) is a task common to almost all projects, and a very satisfying activity. The 62 is a “jack-of-all-trades”, IF you buy and maintain a variety of blades for different tasks. But each of those tasks might not be required very often, depending on how you choose to work. I have both. I use the No.4 at least weekly. I use the 62 two or three times a year.

Much depends on what lumber sources you have access to and what equipment you have and what you want to do.

As a new woodworker, I recommend that you try to buy wood that is “S4S” (surfaced on all four sides). That will minimize your uses for a 62. Just build something; get a few projects done and see how you enjoy it.

As you build your experience, you might decide that you want to do work with rougher lumber, but you can use either power tools or hand tools (or both) to mill that wood. For me, milling wood is less satisfying than other aspects of the craft, and I don’t really use my 62 that often. But I DO use my No. 4.

-- Jim Maher, Illinois

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 954 days


#3 posted 08-02-2016 11:52 PM

I’d say the 4.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#4 posted 08-03-2016 12:05 AM

I agree with the #4. The #62 would be good if you were making a lot of end grain cutting boards or something like that. I’ve got a #62, its one of my least used Planes.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

View Logan Windram's profile

Logan Windram

303 posts in 1930 days


#5 posted 08-03-2016 01:02 AM

I’d go 62, a little different reasoning from others. As a new woodworker, you’ll probably benefit from the ability to flatten and rough lumber that the 62 offers, unless you have jointer, planers and TS. To be honest, I rarely use a smoothing plane, I cleanup machine marks quickly with my 62 and spend a lot of time with a cabinet scraper and even more so sanding for surface prep. Some might argue you can use a 4 to get a piece ready to finish and skip sanding, maybe you can, but IMHO finish looks best on a surface with a consistent 220 scratch pattern. Also, as a new woodworker the ability to use that 62 on a shooting board is priceless, so I’d get the shooting board handle on the 62 when you buy it. There is a great article in FWW on buying extra blades for the 62 for different uses.

I don’t know, I can see the smoother argument, but for me the 62 is so versatile for a first plane (and heavy enough to ease use) that it would be my first purchase. Again, no right or wrong, just preference and method of work.

View Logan Windram's profile

Logan Windram

303 posts in 1930 days


#6 posted 08-03-2016 01:07 AM



Get the No. 4. Wait on the 62.

Smoothing (the No. 4) is a task common to almost all projects, and a very satisfying activity. The 62 is a “jack-of-all-trades”, IF you buy and maintain a variety of blades for different tasks. But each of those tasks might not be required very often, depending on how you choose to work. I have both. I use the No.4 at least weekly. I use the 62 two or three times a year.

Much depends on what lumber sources you have access to and what equipment you have and what you want to do.

As a new woodworker, I recommend that you try to buy wood that is “S4S” (surfaced on all four sides). That will minimize your uses for a 62. Just build something; get a few projects done and see how you enjoy it.

As you build your experience, you might decide that you want to do work with rougher lumber, but you can use either power tools or hand tools (or both) to mill that wood. For me, milling wood is less satisfying than other aspects of the craft, and I don t really use my 62 that often. But I DO use my No. 4.

- jdmaher

S4S will still likely need a flattening and squaring to make it furniture building ready…. But it sure will get him closer than rough sawn, point well taken.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1063 posts in 1457 days


#7 posted 08-03-2016 02:09 AM

You don’t mention if you’ve ever used a hand plane or have any others. If you’re made of $ nothing wrong with starting with LN, or Veritas, but it’s a major investment, although either brand resells very well if you decide planes aren’t for you. For smoothing, a 4 or 4-1/2 (my preference). If you decide to go the premium plane route, get steeper frog for figured wood along with the 45° “standard”. LN offers 55°, Veritas Custom planes can be ordered with any frog angle 40°-65° in 1/2° increments.

If you’re going to do rougher “jack plane” work, you want a Stanley Bailey #5 (probably the most plentiful and lowest cost used plane on the planet). The LN and Veritas LA jack planes don’t work as well as a #5 for jack plane work. Where they shine is end grain/shooting board work, final panel flattening and smoothing if desired, and jointing, though a little short. Multiple blades at different angles depending on the work. I have the Veritas BU LAJ. Here's my opinion on 1st planes.

View Kirk650's profile

Kirk650

295 posts in 216 days


#8 posted 08-03-2016 04:18 AM

I have a couple of 4’s, a 4 1/2, a 3, and a 5 and some others. My two best planes are a LN Bronze 4 and a Veritas 4 LA smoother. If I really need smooth I reach for the old Stanley Bailey 4 1/2. Took me forever to get that rascal to working like I wanted it to, but now it cuts super nice. After that I suppose the LN 4 would be my choice of a smoother. That said, the Veritas 4 LA plane gets used the most for general work and smoothing. I really like the way that Veritas is set up, with the set screws to hold the iron in place and the adjustable mouth. Great design.

Didn’t answer your question that well though, did I? Ok, different approach. The plane I would most hate to lose is the Veritas 4 LA smoother.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 954 days


#9 posted 08-03-2016 04:43 AM

http://contrib1.wkfinetools.com/rittnerB/sUpCapIron/sUpCapIron-01.asp

Watch this video. Very informative if a little boring. Changed my views on planes without a cap iron not used for end grain.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2200 posts in 949 days


#10 posted 08-03-2016 11:59 AM

Definitely the smoother first.

BTW I opted for the LN 4 /12. I like it better for face planing.

Something to consider.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Civilsurf's profile

Civilsurf

11 posts in 160 days


#11 posted 08-08-2016 09:49 AM



What kind of power tools do you have? The common advice is that if you are working with material that has been jointed and planed by power tools, the jack plane is less of a need, as you re basically ready to start smoothing with your No 4.

If you work a lot with slabs or wide panels that you need to flatten or adjust but you can t fit through your planer/jointer, then the jack is more useful.

Brian

- bbasiaga


Hi Brian, thanks for your advise.

1) Can i say that Jack plane are those with longer body i.e. 14” and above? As such, they are more suitable for flattening longer timber?

2) I still can’t fully understand the difference between the use between a standard Jack Plane vs a LA Jack Plane?

3) kind of plane should l use to remove timber that has paint on it?

Shawn

-- Shawn, Singapore

View Civilsurf's profile

Civilsurf

11 posts in 160 days


#12 posted 08-08-2016 09:54 AM



I d go 62, a little different reasoning from others. As a new woodworker, you ll probably benefit from the ability to flatten and rough lumber that the 62 offers, unless you have jointer, planers and TS. To be honest, I rarely use a smoothing plane, I cleanup machine marks quickly with my 62 and spend a lot of time with a cabinet scraper and even more so sanding for surface prep. Some might argue you can use a 4 to get a piece ready to finish and skip sanding, maybe you can, but IMHO finish looks best on a surface with a consistent 220 scratch pattern. Also, as a new woodworker the ability to use that 62 on a shooting board is priceless, so I d get the shooting board handle on the 62 when you buy it. There is a great article in FWW on buying extra blades for the 62 for different uses.

I don t know, I can see the smoother argument, but for me the 62 is so versatile for a first plane (and heavy enough to ease use) that it would be my first purchase. Again, no right or wrong, just preference and method of work.

- Logan Windram

THanks Logan,

my intention is to get a 62 but just want to be sure before getting one. I have a few years of handon experience with plane during my school date and consider myself as a beginner for now.

What do you mean by TS and IMHO?

What brand will you recommend for a 62?

Shawn

-- Shawn, Singapore

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

17971 posts in 2035 days


#13 posted 08-08-2016 10:49 AM

View mike02130's profile

mike02130

96 posts in 140 days


#14 posted 08-08-2016 11:22 AM

LN tools are nice. A bit pricey for most. Not that they charge so much but because most of us are underpaid. I’ve used Stanley planes all my life. Never complained about them. For the price you’re going to pay, you you can pick up a Stanley #3, 4, 5 and a block.plane and a couple of Hock or LN blades and have a lot of fun experimenting and using them. The one LN plane that is a must have for me is their low angle block plain. The 102.

-- If the tool was invented after the Depression, I don't need it.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

759 posts in 1463 days


#15 posted 08-08-2016 03:28 PM


What kind of power tools do you have? The common advice is that if you are working with material that has been jointed and planed by power tools, the jack plane is less of a need, as you re basically ready to start smoothing with your No 4.

If you work a lot with slabs or wide panels that you need to flatten or adjust but you can t fit through your planer/jointer, then the jack is more useful.

Brian

- bbasiaga

Hi Brian, thanks for your advise.

1) Can i say that Jack plane are those with longer body i.e. 14” and above? As such, they are more suitable for flattening longer timber?

2) I still can t fully understand the difference between the use between a standard Jack Plane vs a LA Jack Plane?

3) kind of plane should l use to remove timber that has paint on it?

Shawn

- Civilsurf

1. Yes, that’s about right for a jack plane length…maybe 14” max. A little too long for good smoothing, a little too short for good jointing. But reasonable at both. Hence the ‘jack’ of all trades. It is not really for jointing long timbers. It is more for getting them close to final dimension and reasonably flat. Then you come in with a No 7 jointing plane to make flat and true, and a no 4 to smooth. So if you use power tools to get flat and true, you may not need the jack as much.

2. They do mainly the same thing. The advantage of the LA jack is that it is possible to sharpen the blade at different angles for different work. 25 degrees for end grain shooting, 38 degrees for reduced ear out while working face or long grain. A regular jack will always cut at the angle of the frog. LA jack planes also have an adjustable mouth to open for rough work, or close for reduced tear out. Really it is the flexibility of the LA jack that makes it useful to some. Others prefer the regular.

3. For this you could get a toothed blade or scraper blade for the LA jack, but you might also consider just getting a No 80 cabinet scraper to take the abuse.

Being in singapor, I’m not sure if the used market for old stanley is as cost effective for you, but it is something to consider.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

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