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Forum topic by b2rtch posted 05-18-2010 04:07 PM 1840 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


05-18-2010 04:07 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

I know, this me again with more questions but I figure that it is better to ask rather than making mistakes.
I am building a work bench.
My question is :except for the travel of my vise, what else dictates the placement of the dog holes?
In other words: where to drill the holes for hold-downs and dogs?
What diameter should I drill the holes or should I make them square?
My finished bench will be 96”x36”
Thank you.
Bert

-- Bert


18 replies so far

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naomi weiss

206 posts in 2860 days


#1 posted 05-18-2010 05:35 PM

Bert, i am glad you asked this—i am wondering the exact same thing!

-- 'Humility is a duty in great ones, as well as in idiots'--Jeremy Taylor

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#2 posted 05-18-2010 05:36 PM

Shalom Naomi.
Happy Shavuot!!

-- Bert

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#3 posted 05-18-2010 05:41 PM

Naomi,
Read this :
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/4758
Hag Sameach
Bert

-- Bert

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richgreer

4541 posts in 2540 days


#4 posted 05-18-2010 05:54 PM

The standard size for a round dog hole is 3/4”. The size will allow you to use the commercially available bench dogs.

The critical think with dog holes is to place them very precisely. If you have 2 rows of dog holes (which is common), when you tighten down on a wide board, you want the pressure on each side to be the same. You want the 2 holes in the vise and each set of 2 holes in the bench to be perfectly parallel. Also, you want the holes to be perfectly vertical.

I tried to measure carefully and mark the location for the holes with a pencil. Then I bore them freehand with a portable drill. I was close but not close enough. In retrospect, I should have made some kind of a jig with a couple of drill guides.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#5 posted 05-18-2010 05:55 PM

One more for Naomi:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?referrerid=5960&t=85129

It seems that around half the opening of the vise is what we want and also it depend on the reach of the hold down you will use if any.
I bought the vise and the hold-down from HF, the hold down is 8 1/2” and the vise opening is 10 1/2” so between 5 and 6” spacing should do the trick.
One row of holes in line with the vise’s dog and another row on the other side of the bench about 6.00” from the edge.
It will be time to drill more holes later on if needed.
I have also drilled holes on the front and on the rear of the bench 6.00” apart to use with pipe clamps or hold downs.
Shalom.
Bert

-- Bert

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#6 posted 05-18-2010 07:00 PM

Rich,
Thank you for you reply.
So if I understand you well you do not recommend to have a row of holes in line with the dog on the end vice but the end vice, with only one dog in the center, to be in the exact middle of the two rows. Is this correct?
If this is correct what do you do if you want to use only one row of hole?
I have made a stop to use when planing which uses two holes, I see that I could use the same stop for narrow pieces.
I was planning on installing the end vise quite close from the bench edge so that when using it with the dogs the board would not be to far toward the center of the bench but if I need to install the vise between two rows of holes this moves the vise further toward the center of the bench.
How far from the edge do you recommend to install the vise?
How far apart the two of holes should be?
I shall use a mag-drill to drill the holes perfectly square the bench top.
Thank you again.
Bert

-- Bert

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richgreer

4541 posts in 2540 days


#7 posted 05-18-2010 07:38 PM

I have 2 holes in my end vise. When I am clamping a wide board I like all 4 dogs to make solid contact with the board. However, I can see an advantage to having only one hole in the vise.

If I am working on a narrow piece (which is rare), I usually put a couple of pieces of scrap crossways between the sets of dogs. If I try to just use one of my rows the vice gets sort of jammed up because of the pressure only at one end.

My end vice is at one side of the end and the rows of holes are 3” and 15” from the edge (i.e. the holes are 12” apart).

If you look at the 5th picture of my workshop you can see the workbench and how I did the holes. Note that this picture was taken right after I built the workbench. It does not look that clean now.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#8 posted 05-18-2010 08:16 PM

Thank you again Rich

-- Bert

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#9 posted 05-18-2010 09:27 PM

Rich, one last question for today: why to go through the trouble of buying 2×10or 2×12 and to rip them instead of buying 2×4 which are cheaper?
I assume that the reason is that one can choose the best part of the wood, is this correct?
Bert

-- Bert

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8523 posts in 3114 days


#10 posted 05-18-2010 09:42 PM

Bert, 2×12 material is also purposed as support beams which are supposed to support heavy load which requires the material to be straight grained and have less knots, so the material is of better quality than regular 2×4s and can really be maximized for almost full use.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#11 posted 05-18-2010 10:01 PM

Thank you.
If I use 2×12x8 ( I need 15 of them), a quick look at Lowes tells me that the cost for the lumber and for the top only is going to be around $150.00,quite a bit more than expected.

-- Bert

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rwyoung

388 posts in 2938 days


#12 posted 05-18-2010 10:14 PM

A few random thoughts:

As to getting a double row “even”, it really isn’t that big a deal. Cut some wedges with long tapers. If you are a little out on one dog or the other, just slip the wedge in to even things up again. What may be an annoyance is the need to have wedges of different thicknesses, say a 3/4” thick and maybe a 3/8” thick. I’ve done this, it works but can be bothersome. Seems to work better with a round dog so that the wedge can pivot to match angles with the workpiece and fit more tightly.

There are long arguments for and against double rows of matched dogholes. I’ve been using a bench lately with a single row in line with the endvice and a second row intended for holddowns not dogs. So the second row has them spaced about every foot. I’ve tried a few wide pieces and all I did was pinch it in the regular dog holes then slip in a holddown and give it a whack to keep the piece from rotating. Worked fine.

I also frequently use a bench with no dog holes at all. For wide panels I simple clamp a batten across the end of the bench and the planing force and chiseling forces push it into the batten. If it needs lateral support I can clamp a board at right angles to the batten and the workpiece is now trapped in a corner. This is assuming I’m using hand tools. If I need it held down for say routing, I’ll clamp it to the bench top from the edge or by using a pinch board. The clamps could be in the way and require I stop and reposition them.

YMMV.

-- Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

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rwyoung

388 posts in 2938 days


#13 posted 05-18-2010 10:19 PM

Another comment on the dog holes:

If you go with square holes, having them tilted maybe 2-4 degrees toward the vice is a common recommendation. At the very least, don’t tilt them away! With a little leather on the square dog face and tilted into the vice they will wedge better and can clamp a little harder.

Round dog holes, I’ve seen more debate. Again, tilted toward the clamping force for better grip. But then also putting a flat face on the dog too. The vertical hole camp argues that having them vertical works better for holddowns and the special rotatry clamping devices like benchpups and other accessories from Lee Valley etc.

The upshot of all this, there are lots of solutions to the problem. But if you can define what work you intend to do at the bench and with what tools it might make your dog hole choices a little easier.

-- Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

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b2rtch

4823 posts in 2514 days


#14 posted 05-18-2010 10:30 PM

I want to use mostly hand tools , making mostly cabinets and such

-- Bert

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wch

45 posts in 2424 days


#15 posted 05-19-2010 10:30 PM

I’m far from an expert on this, but on mine, I have just a front vise, with three rows of holes. One row is in the center, for when two points of contact are enough, and there are two rows on the sides, for when I want three or four points of contact. The holes are spaced at 3”. I made a wooden vise screw that has 6 turns per inch, so I didn’t want them too far apart. If you have a quick-release vise or one with just, say, 2 turns per inch, you can have larger spacing.

Having lots of holes can be a little annoying, though. Sometimes small pieces of hardware will fall through. And for the ones in the front where there’s vise hardware and wood directly underneath, they can get clogged wand I have to use a stick or vacuum to clear them out.

One more thing I would suggest: put the first holes closer to the vise than your spacing would normally dictate. For example, if you have 6 inch spacing, don’t put the nearest holes 6 inches away. Put them much closer, for clamping small pieces.

If you’re curious, mine is similar to this one, except that mine has 3 rows, while his has 4 (he doesn’t have a centered row):
http://roughwood.kennethwoodruff.com/2010/03/meet-the-knock-down-workbench/

Update: fixed incorrect URL.

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