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Can't Get My Grizzley 8in Jointer to start

3K views 46 replies 18 participants last post by  TheFridge 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have a 8 year old Model: G0656XW jointer with spiral cutter. The other day i went to turn it on and nothing happened. I checked the power to the unit, the switch and both were functioning normally. I then proceeded to check the motor. I pulled out the start capacitor and tested it and it tested fine. I even ordered a new one just in case and didn't fix it. I pull apart the motor and checked the centripetal switch and it also tested good or at least i think it did. What's strange though is when i put the start capacitor back on and test it, it doesn't charge, its almost like the circuit is already closed so the capacitor can't charge enough to do anything. What am i wonder is if the start capacitor is connected normally and i run my ohm meter through it should the capacitor charge enough to give me a read out on my ohm meter? Let me know if I should be checking anything else.
 
#2 ·
The cap will (should) start at a very low resistance value and move towards infinity. You have to disconnect it first (and short the terminals before putting your meter on it). A quick-n-dirty test to see if it's your start circuit is to spin the motor by hand and hit the start switch while it's still rotating.

This may help: How to Test a Capacitor?

Cheers,
Brad
 
#4 ·
I did disconnect it, short it and then tested it. I saw it go towards infinity slowly when connected to my ohm meter. I did try to spin the motor and hit the start button but I can't spin it fast enough. But I did get a brand new replacement cap from grizzley and still the same. But I'm wondering how does the capcitor charge so when you hit the start button it discharges? If i test it while it's hooked up it the cap doesn't seem to charge but shouldn't it?

I don't hear anything when I hit the start button. Everything is quite as the grave.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
Then it's not the cap. And you don't need to spin the motor by hand fast, just get it moving.

The capacitor is in circuit when the motor is stopped. It is switched out of circuit via the centrifugal switch disengaging once enough speed is obtained. Sounds like a power problem… did you check voltage at the motor? Fridge has a good idea as well. Did you check voltages at the starter (does it have one?).

Cheers,
Brad
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have a 8 year old Model: G0656XW jointer with spiral cutter. The other day i went to turn it on and nothing happened. I checked the power to the unit, the switch and both were functioning normally. I then proceeded to check the motor. I pulled out the start capacitor and tested it and it tested fine. I even ordered a new one just in case and didn t fix it. I pull apart the motor and checked the centripetal switch and it also tested good or at least i think it did. What s strange though is when i put the start capacitor back on and test it, it doesn t charge, its almost like the circuit is already closed so the capacitor can t charge enough to do anything. What am i wonder is if the start capacitor is connected normally and i run my ohm meter through it should the capacitor charge enough to give me a read out on my ohm meter? Let me know if I should be checking anything else.

- nathan1342
Nathan, can you please post a picture of the original cap and the new one? According to the OEM magic juice map, this should have either a dual cap (run/start capacitor) or two separate but equally important capacitors.

#1 How long has your boat anchor been in service?

#2 How long has it been since it was still a jointer and not a boat anchor?

#3 Has anything in your arboreal conclave changed since you last performed a squaring ritual?

#4 Has your wife or female partner (or male partner for that matter, who are we to judge) had access to your lair. If yours is like mine and thinks you love your tools more than her, mine is correct by the way. Then she may have "say boat tajed" it in a fit of jealous rage.

On a serious note though, if you could post a pic and let me know about the number of capacitors I maybe be able to help. I gots me lots of experience troubleshooting machines via text and phone calls.
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
WARNING - Be extremely careful around AC power.
I know nothing about this joiner except what I can find on line. According to the operators manual it is a 220v sngl phase machine and it does not appear to use a starter, only a simple On/Off paddle switch. It has been my experience in my shop as well as others in other forums I post in that most of the time a dead motor is the result of dust infiltration into the On/Off switch. I have repaired at least 6 machines, mine and others, by simply opening up the switch and blowing out the dust. My first check would be to verify that single phase 220 is coming out of the switch when the switch is on.

To check that power is coming to the motor from the switch, MAKE SURE the machine is OFF, open up the wiring access panel on the motor, connect a volt meter to the two(2) power wires coming from the switch, probably red and black. There may also be a third wire, usually green, not needed for this check. When the meter is hooked up turn the switch on for a few seconds and see if your meter reads around 220 volts. If you do read between one of the power wires and the green(ground) wire you will most likely read 110 volts, both power leads should read 110 volts to ground but checking it is not needed. The 220 is all you need to check for. If there is no 220v then turn the switch off. Unplug the machine, open up the switch box, connect your meter to the power leads coming from your power cord coming into the box. The power cord may have red, black, and green or black, white, and green wires, which ever it has hook your meter between the two that are not green then plug the cord in. If you see 220 volts you need to repair/replace the switch, if not then the cord or other down stream wiring is bad, maybe a bad/tripped breaker.
Let us know what you find.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
WARNING - Be extremely careful around AC power.
BTW the starting capacitor is used as a phase shiftier and does not actually charge in the usual sense that you may be thinking. In an AC circuit it is constantly changing its charge from positive to negative back to positive at a 60 cycle rate. The chances of you seeing it "charged" with a meter are very slim. The info given above on checking the cap with an Ohm meter is all you really need to do to check one. To check and verify a "charge" you would have to disconnect it from the circuit the instant the AC voltage reached a peak either positive or negative, in any-case the presence of a charge on it after disconnecting it from the circuit would mean very little to the trouble shooting scenario. In the case of checking the cap for a "charge" with the power turned off, if the power went off on a peak it will have most likely discharged itself within just a second or less through the start coil the instant the starter/centrifugal switch re-engages as the motor slows to a stop. Typically if the cap is bad the motor does not start AND a noticeable humm can be heard. If you are not hearing any sound from the motor and it will not start by hand then most likely it is not the cap but missing 220 power.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for all the responses. I purchased this jointer practically unused from an older gentleman who was transitioning out of woodworking. Got it home and it was working great, maybe put only 10 hours on it max. I moved across town and trucked it with me. It sat for about 6 months since I had my second child and didn't have time for woodworking. Finally got things on a schedule and decided to start on some projects. Went to flatten some 12/4 black walnut, hit the on button and nothing. It worked across town, brought it to my new house and nothing. I initally thought I wired the 220 outlet wrong but as you can see in the video below, the voltage tests fine all the way to the motor.

It has two caps, run capacitor and a start capacitor. I haven't tested the run cap since the wire nut are the compression type so its more difficult to remove. But I would think, and maybe this is wrong, but it would at least attempt to start before the run cap kicks in.

Really the setup is super simple, there ins't a lot that can go wrong. But please take a look at the video below and let me know if I'm missing something or should be testing something else. I"ve also taken off each wire nut and made sure the connection was secure.

 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
When you test "hot to hot" you are seeing the potential for both legs of power because you are still making a circuit, albeit a circuit using a single phase, just not a circuit to ground.

Without a significant description of phasor mathematics and something called "complex numbers", it would be very hard for me to describe in other terms why this happens.

I will try to draw up a schematic that will simplify it, I hope. Without getting into the vectors of wave forms and the ask the little x's and y's it would take a VERY long post to accurately describe. And God knows you don't want to see the mathematical explanation. It makes my friggin head throb just thinking about it.
 
#23 ·
Excuse my ignorance, but I didn t thing hot to hot would give a reading since there is no voltage difference between the two.
I ve always done it by testing each hot to ground.
- rwe2156
Each "hot" lead is a different phase. Same voltage but different phases, so you will be measuring only voltage from one of the hot leads in one direction with your multi-meter.
 
#24 ·
Each "hot" lead is a different phase. Same voltage but different phases, so you will be measuring only voltage from one of the hot leads in one direction with your multi-meter.

- HorizontalMike
I'm betting that both of your hot leads are on the same phase. Not every location in a panel will allow a double breaker to connect to both phases. Have a careful look in your panel and make sure that each half of the breaker is actually on a different phase.

If both hots to ground give you 120V but the hot to hot gives nothing, then chances are that they are both the same phase.
 
#25 ·
Or the breaker is bad or the switch is bad. Depends on where you test at.

The only thing you test and want little to no voltage between is the neutral and ground. They have essentially the same potential.
 
#26 ·
Each "hot" lead is a different phase. Same voltage but different phases, so you will be measuring only voltage from one of the hot leads in one direction with your multi-meter.

- HorizontalMike

I m betting that both of your hot leads are on the same phase. Not every location in a panel will allow a double breaker to connect to both phases. Have a careful look in your panel and make sure that each half of the breaker is actually on a different phase.

If both hots to ground give you 120V but the hot to hot gives nothing, then chances are that they are both the same phase.

- theotherken
I agree with your analasses Mike. I think he has a double tapped breaker. Seen it a hell of a lot of times.
They run them two to your house along with a ground wire. They bond that to your house neutral which connects to your neutral buss. Then hook one leg to the "A" leg buss and the other to the "B" leg buss. That's one reason they have a natural bar and a ground bar inside distribution panels.

But in residential power there is only single phase. Up at the transformer power from the magic pixie dancing ass wranglers (read power company) comes in on the one side goes thru the high side coil then back out on their primary ground making the transformer's primary side of the circuit. That causes the magnetic inductance in the secondary side. Then they tap into it a two different places on the secondary side, essentially a positive tap and a negative tap. (But because it is AC it changes back and forth 60 times a second.)

Sorry guys my old lady calls what I did "verbally vomiting on people". I can't help it, us engineers are just bat ********************te crazy line that.
 
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