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Forum topic by isu1977 posted 07-20-2016 09:29 PM 554 views 1 time favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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isu1977

31 posts in 2335 days


07-20-2016 09:29 PM

I have a Jet DC650 Dust Collector which produces 650CFM’s with a 1HP motor. I was told that it was possible to change out the motor to increase the CFM’s. I was looking at buying a larger Dust Collector, but was told that this was cheaper way to go, if possible. Can anyone inform me if this is possible. and how to do it?
Thanks.

-- Cy - Des Moines, IA


14 replies so far

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

977 posts in 915 days


#1 posted 07-20-2016 09:38 PM

Motors come in standard sizes & mounts. Get the NEMA # off it. Try grizzly.com or mcmaster.com for replacements.

M

-- Madmark - Madmark2150@yahoo.com Wiretreefarm.com

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5604 posts in 2694 days


#2 posted 07-20-2016 09:46 PM

I know it is a brain melter, but look up Bill Pentz' dust collection research.

Generally speaking, the tiny diameter / small motor dust collectors aren’t going to do a tinkers hoot.

Your best low $$ option is to…

#1. Buy a used Harbor Freight 2HP Dust collector. Or a new one if you catch a sale / coupon. Don’t pay more than $100.00 for a used one. #2. Build an internal Thien Baffle for your Harbor Freight Dust Collector. #3. Select the Wynn 35A canister filter of your liking, form the least expensive (paper filter) to the most (nano filber). I went with the spun bond poly because it is washable.

The size of your ducting matters, a LOT. The HF DC will support 5” duct, if you can run 5” to the tool and neck down if you have to and get to a 4” port, do it. The idea is to have as much air flowing inside the system as possible. If you roll the DC from machine to machine, keep your hose SHORT.

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

View joey502's profile

joey502

487 posts in 980 days


#3 posted 07-20-2016 09:47 PM

Dc blowers are sized with as a motor impeller combo. I would do more research into the possible benefits before investing in a new motor.

The impeller in your unit is only going to move as much air as the exhaust will allow.

View crank49's profile

crank49

3981 posts in 2433 days


#4 posted 07-20-2016 09:52 PM

Fans have a huge range of capacity in terms of CFM as well as inches of pressure.
Generally speaking, the faster it spins, the more air it moves.
Also, as the volume and pressure goes up so does the horsepower required to spin it.
In fact, the power required changes by the square of the volume change and by the cube of the pressure change.

One other inconvenient fact. Manufacturers tend to run fans at the extreme limits of their ability to stay in one piece to get the most out of them as possible. So, increasing horsepower won’t do much without increasing the speed. Increasing the speed, if you don’t know what the limits of the equipment is, is a good way to see how good you are at dodging shrapnel when it flies apart.

Just saying.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

View isu1977's profile

isu1977

31 posts in 2335 days


#5 posted 07-20-2016 10:00 PM

Thanks for the comments. I will do more research before tearing the motor about.

-- Cy - Des Moines, IA

View crank49's profile

crank49

3981 posts in 2433 days


#6 posted 07-20-2016 10:13 PM

As an engineer who has worked with dust control systems for most of my professional career it really irks me to keep seeing folks recommend the Thien baffle as an upgrade for the HF dust collector. IT IS NOT. A simple drop out box, or expansion chamber, will work better, is easier to build, and will not use up as much of your available static pressure. A cyclone stage in front of that collector would not be an upgrade for the same reason. Will these devices capture dust before it gets to the filter? Yes, but at a high cost in terms of air flow from the source. And air flow at the source is the most important thing.

I’m not against Thien baffles. They are easier to build than cyclones and work almost as well unless you are trying to capture very very fine dust. But they are self contained systems, good for a system that is vented outside. Wouldn’t want to breathe the output.

-- Michael: Hillary has a long list of accomplishments, though most DAs would refer to them as felonies.

View BobAnderton's profile

BobAnderton

219 posts in 2252 days


#7 posted 07-21-2016 12:55 AM

Putting a higher HP motor on an impeller of a given size won’t achieve more airflow. Induction motors on dust collectors typically turn at 3400 rpm. If the impeller is bigger it will move more air but require more current (higher HP rating) to keep that RPM. A low HP motor will be paired with a small impeller since that’s what that motor can turn. If you put a higher HP motor on it it won’t turn any faster, it will just have more current carrying capacity than it needs to turn that small impeller. To get more airflow you need both a higher HP motor and a larger impeller.

-- Bob Anderton - Austin, TX - Nova 3000 lathe, Alaskan Mark III mill, Husqavarna Saw

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3932 posts in 1955 days


#8 posted 07-21-2016 11:56 AM



Putting a higher HP motor on an impeller of a given size won t achieve more airflow. Induction motors on dust collectors typically turn at 3400 rpm. If the impeller is bigger it will move more air but require more current (higher HP rating) to keep that RPM. A low HP motor will be paired with a small impeller since that s what that motor can turn. If you put a higher HP motor on it it won t turn any faster, it will just have more current carrying capacity than it needs to turn that small impeller. To get more airflow you need both a higher HP motor and a larger impeller.

- BobAnderton

What he said^^^^^. I see posts every once in a while about the larger motor, but it just ain’t gonna do anything except maybe let the motor work less hard.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Plain's profile

Plain

157 posts in 160 days


#9 posted 07-22-2016 12:14 AM

Get the Harbor Freight 2HP dust collector and be done with it. It costs less than the motor installed in it and actually performs quite good.

View PatrickH's profile

PatrickH

51 posts in 1349 days


#10 posted 07-22-2016 12:13 PM

Yeah, you’ll probably need a larger impeller as well.

-- http://bloodsweatsawdust.com

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3932 posts in 1955 days


#11 posted 07-22-2016 01:51 PM

Just a comment about the HF 2 HP; there are some things to check if you’re thinking about that. The HF is not a 2 HP motor, it’s closer to 1.5HP. Most 1.5HP DCs have an 11” impeller, but the HF has one that’s closer to 10”, that may be what your Jet has. I’d also compare the filtration of your Jet (I’d guess it to be a 30 micron bag) to whatever the HF comes with. Point being, the HF may be an upgrade (or not) from where you’re at, but it might not be much. I did look for the Jet specs and found the online info to be, well, lacking in detail. I’m not beating up the HF, a lot of guys have it and are quite happy…just suggesting that from where you are, it may not be a real big difference.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Plain's profile

Plain

157 posts in 160 days


#12 posted 07-22-2016 09:15 PM


Just a comment about the HF 2 HP; there are some things to check if you re thinking about that. The HF is not a 2 HP motor, it s closer to 1.5HP. Most 1.5HP DCs have an 11” impeller, but the HF has one that s closer to 10”
- Fred Hargis

My dust collector used to trigger 15A breakers one out of three starts until I upgraded to 20A. My 2HP Grizzly never ever triggered a 15A breaker even with a full dado set. I used the outlets interchangeably.

So unless HF motor has very bad efficiency factor I would argue that it is at lease as powerful as 2HP saw.

As for the impeller diameter it is not the only factor that dictates its performance. There is also width and the shape too.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1113 posts in 2406 days


#13 posted 07-23-2016 07:53 AM

As pointed out by others, motors vary in efficiency. My Unisaw runs a three horse, but idles along at about seven amps. The collector connected to it is also a three horse, but idles at fifteen amps. Some of that may be load, but some of it may be the motor quality too.

The foregoing aside, I just pulled a one horse Delta off my miter and replaced it with the HF “two horse.” We, normally, don’t run more than a horse and a half on a o120 circuit. That would be a lot of amps and reduced efficiency. That said, I note a HUGE difference in how much dust is collected, even with just a hose near the output of the miter. I can only imagine what it’d do with a five inch hose.

View noone's profile

noone

559 posts in 1734 days


#14 posted 07-24-2016 04:09 AM



As an engineer who has worked with dust control systems for most of my professional career it really irks me to keep seeing folks recommend the Thien baffle as an upgrade for the HF dust collector. IT IS NOT. A simple drop out box, or expansion chamber, will work better, is easier to build, and will not use up as much of your available static pressure. A cyclone stage in front of that collector would not be an upgrade for the same reason. Will these devices capture dust before it gets to the filter? Yes, but at a high cost in terms of air flow from the source. And air flow at the source is the most important thing.

I m not against Thien baffles. They are easier to build than cyclones and work almost as well unless you are trying to capture very very fine dust. But they are self contained systems, good for a system that is vented outside. Wouldn t want to breathe the output.

- crank49

Do you have any plans or details on how to build this dropout box? I’m interested…....

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