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Forum topic by Maplicito posted 07-20-2016 02:52 AM 791 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Maplicito

8 posts in 141 days


07-20-2016 02:52 AM

I have a bit of an unusual project – I’m at work at the moment, so I may not respond very quickly, and I can’t post pictures at the moment.

Anyhow, I have an old console radio (~1938), and the insides have been removed. I have already installed a modern subwoofer and a modern pair of 5×7 speakers to replace the original speaker. I am going to be installing the appropriate amplifiers, and I am also going to put a computer in it – essentially retrofitting the radio into an antique looking computer with its own sound system.

Where I need some help is with backing the radio – currently it is an open back, and both the computer and the amplifiers are going to need backing to the radio in order to be properly mounted. However, I want to modify the original wood of the radio’s cabinet as little as possible. I also want to use threaded inserts, so that the back can come on and off easily, for upgrades and maintenance.

What I am thinking of doing is gluing pieces of wood – something like 1×3’s or 2×4’s on the inside – and then putting the threaded inserts into them, allowing the back to be screwed on into them. As well as allowing me to not put holes in the original wood, it would also allow the back to be more recessed, or even be put within the cabinet itself, so that it doesn’t take away from how the radio looks from any angle other than the back.

My question is – given what I’m trying to accomplish, is this doable and appropriate? The radio has very little if any monetary value, so I’m not concerned about harming the monetary value – I’d just like to keep it as original as possible.

If it is doable and appropriate, are there glues that you would recommend? Strength is somewhat important, as the back may need to support up to 30 lbs, but I’m assuming that in a radio 3 and a half feet tall, and 2 feet wide, there should be enough surface area for the glue to grab, and give it the strength it would need. Would any of the glues you would recommend allow for removing the glued on wood later, without damaging the cabinet?

Thanks for any help you can give!


19 replies so far

View BurlyBob's profile

BurlyBob

3686 posts in 1730 days


#1 posted 07-20-2016 04:05 AM

Titebond II. It will do everything you need for an interior project. It’s easy to find anywhere.

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brtech

901 posts in 2387 days


#2 posted 07-20-2016 09:57 AM

You shouldn’t need anything as big as 1×3 for this. Something around 3/4” x 3/4” should be enough.

Using threaded inserts is a good solution. Put them in before you glue. A tip on inserting them if you happen to have a drill press: chuck a large slotted screwdriver bit into the press. Position the wood with the predrilled hole under the bit, and use the press to hold the insert in place. Turn the chuck with your hand while pressing down with the drill press handle to screw the insert into the hole.

Any of the Titebond formulas will be fine. Don’t think Titebond II is any better than the original Titebond for this application. When applied correctly, the glue bond is stronger than the wood. You can find Titebond in the big box home improvement centers.

You want a clean, fresh wood surface to glue to for maximum strength. Many finishes can be roughed up with sandpaper and then glued to, but best if you remove the finish under the joint. You don’t want the wood surface too smooth (80 grit sandpaper is fine, for example).

You want to clamp the parts together with a fair amount of force, so plan, and practice, how you will do that before you apply glue.

Apply glue to both sides. An old credit card makes a decent glue spreader. Then put the parts together aligned where you want them and clamp. When you clamp the pieces together, you should get glue squeeze out. Clean that up with a damp rag or sponge.

You are thinking about ventilation for this, right? One reason the original has no back is to allow ventilation. If you seal up the back, how will the computer be cooled?

View Aidan1211's profile

Aidan1211

189 posts in 290 days


#3 posted 07-20-2016 11:08 AM

The best way to look at the titebond series of glues is based on what they will tolerate.

Titebond Original – Interior use only ( Not tolerant to any kind of moisture beyond day to day humid changes) Easiest to reverse with a little bit of heat.

Titebond II – General use interior to temporary moisture situations (This is the formula most of use guys go to with regular frequency and can also be released with heat) I typically only use Titebond II on my furniture unless its going to live outside

Titebond III – This glue is best used in areas that could see frequent exposure to outdoor elements but with NOT tolerate constant submersion. This type is a lot harder to release at a later date and requires the use of a significant amount of heat to remove. It also dries to the darkest color and is best used on darker woods if stain is not going to be used.

I agree that old credit cards work Very well as a glue spreader.

-- its better to plan on the task at hand than actually doing it........ You look smarter.

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Maplicito

8 posts in 141 days


#4 posted 07-20-2016 01:24 PM

Thanks for the responses guys! I will be on the lookout for either Titebond Original or II, they sound like exactly what I’m after. If I use something around a 3/4 by 3/4 as recommended, do you think that would give enough strength to add handles to the back? Handles aren’t a necessity, but it’s an idea I have toyed with.

As for ventilation, this should work just fine. The back panel to the motherboard tray I’m going to use is well ventilated, and will have a 120mm fan mounted to it, right in front of the CPU’s tower cooler. The power supply should also facilitate air movement, and the hard drive cage I’m going to put in also has its own fan. I may add another fan later, but I’ve already got the donor computer sitting in a less well ventilated area, and it does fine for heat.

Any recommendations on the insert/screw sizes I should be using for mounting the back? The computer itself (well, the motherboard tray) uses 6-32’s, so I’ll be using the appropriate inserts for it, but I would assume that I should be using something more beefy for the back panel?

Thanks again! I was going to post some pictures, but it looks like I’ll have to do so when I’ve got time for formatting the post.

View brtech's profile

brtech

901 posts in 2387 days


#5 posted 07-20-2016 01:32 PM

3/4”won’t let you hold up the entire unit by handles, no. What do the handles do?
You can move air INSIDE the cabinet all you want, but how does hot air get out of the box (and fresh air get in)?
You need openings for air to enter and exit the cabinet.

What is the back made of? I was thinking you were going to use 1/4” ply, hardboard or something like that. Even half inch would be fine with #8 screws.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7172 posts in 2262 days


#6 posted 07-20-2016 01:53 PM

The Titebond glues recommended above will all do most of what you asked for just fine but the last point seems to have been missed. PVA glues like those mentioned are not reversible and you would not be able to (easily) remove the glued pieces later without damaging the cabinet.
I would recommend hide glue, the glue that was used on the original cabinet back in 1938. It is just as strong as the others but when you want to remove the pieces you can reverse the glue with heat and moisture. Soaking with hot wet rags will do it. Personally I would use hot hide glue but if you aren’t set up for it and aren’t familiar with it, a liquid hide glue will be just as good in this application and more user friendly. I would recommend one called Old Brown Glue. You can get it at most woodworking supply stores or online. http://www.oldbrownglue.com

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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brtech

901 posts in 2387 days


#7 posted 07-20-2016 01:57 PM

I don’t think the OP asked for reversibility. Hide glue is not as strong as PVA glues, all the testing shows that clearly. It might well be strong enough for this application, but we still don’t know what the “handles” are for. If all the glue does is hold the inserts for a removeable back, hide glue is undoubtedly strong enough.

View Maplicito's profile

Maplicito

8 posts in 141 days


#8 posted 07-20-2016 02:11 PM

I’m at work now, so responses may not come very quickly. Reverse-ability would be ideal. The handles would be for being able to get a good handhold for moving the radio. If that’s not an ideal solution, it’s definitely not a necessity. Removing the back panel would allow for a reasonable grip, or for the take down of the heaviest components – the handles would just be for the lazy “I want to haul this upstairs, but I don’t want to take anything apart” moments.

The air flow should not be an issue. The 120mm fan and the CPU’s tower cooler act as exit fans. The back of the motherboard tray is well ventilated, allowing for air to flow in. It should create a negative air pressure, and is actually a better cooling setup than where the computer currently resides. If I find a need though, I may add fans later on, but at least until I add a discrete video card, I don’t believe it will be an issue.

Edit: Reverse-ability is more important to me than handles are.

View jbay's profile (online now)

jbay

816 posts in 363 days


#9 posted 07-20-2016 02:29 PM


Edit: Reverse-ability is more important to me than handles are.

- Maplicito

Just screw them on without glue. If anything, maybe put a small bead of caulking on the wood first, then you could just pry it off with a putty knife without much trouble.
I honestly think screws alone would suffice, unless you think there may be a rattle situation from the speakers.

-- My “MO” involves Judging others, playing God, acting as LJs law enforcement, and never admitting any of my ideas could possibly be wrong or anyone else's idea could possibly be correct -- (A1Jim)

View brtech's profile

brtech

901 posts in 2387 days


#10 posted 07-20-2016 02:35 PM

Okay, well, hide glue is reversible, so that’s the way to go if you want to remove it.

If you want to hold the whole thing up, you might need that 1×3, although I think it probably could be done with something smaller (1.5 or 2×3/4 maybe).

I’m still not getting the ventilation. You are putting the computer inside the radio cabinet. The computer generates a lot of heat. The fans in the tower will move the heat out of the tower, but how does it get out of the cabinet, especially if you seal up the back? Where are the openings in the radio cabinet?

View Maplicito's profile

Maplicito

8 posts in 141 days


#11 posted 07-20-2016 02:36 PM


Just screw them on without glue. If anything, maybe put a small bead of caulking on the wood first, then you could just pry it off with a putty knife without much trouble.
I honestly think screws alone would suffice, unless you think there may be a rattle situation from the speakers.

- jbay

It’s more that I don’t want to put screw holes in the radio’s original wood if I can avoid it. If it’s not reasonably avoidable, I’ll put screws in, but I would like the option of restoring the cabinet to its original condition, so I thought gluing new wood in to serve as a mounting point in might allow that.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

7172 posts in 2262 days


#12 posted 07-20-2016 02:49 PM

I’m not getting into an argument about the strengths of glues but as they are all much stronger than the wood they are glueing I don’t think it matters much. I’ve never been able to make hide glue fail and I’ve tried a lot.

If you want reversibility, hide glue is what you need.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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Maplicito

8 posts in 141 days


#13 posted 07-20-2016 02:53 PM

Thanks Paul – “strong enough” is good enough for me – I’m going to have a look at the Old Brown Glue you recommended.

View jbay's profile (online now)

jbay

816 posts in 363 days


#14 posted 07-20-2016 02:56 PM

One other suggestion then would be to use double sided tape. I use some stuff that’s pretty strong. I think it would work for what your doing. If you care to entertain that idea here is a web site I buy it from. They carry a lot of different types. You can check them out here if you like.
Trust me, plenty strong enough! This one – http://www.crlaurence.com/crlapps/showline/offerpage.aspx?Productid=2587&GroupID=1205&History=39324:330:1197:1201&ModelID=1205

-- My “MO” involves Judging others, playing God, acting as LJs law enforcement, and never admitting any of my ideas could possibly be wrong or anyone else's idea could possibly be correct -- (A1Jim)

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Maplicito

8 posts in 141 days


#15 posted 07-20-2016 03:00 PM

Great, I’ll check that out too – options are always a good thing!

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