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Charles Neil Blotch Control, what am I doing wrong?

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Forum topic by Plain posted 07-13-2016 06:55 PM 515 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Plain

157 posts in 159 days


07-13-2016 06:55 PM

I used Charles Neil Blotch Control without much problem on smaller pieces in the past. However I am finishing a not so large coffee table 50”x50” from hard maple using General Finishes water based dye and a piece of t-shirt to wipe it on and it gives me hard time.
The blotch control layer drinks the dye so fast that I have great difficulties to keep the wet edge. It is literally 5-6 seconds and it dries and you see the stripes. Using more of the dye dissolves the blotch control coat and creates incredible mess. I already stripped the finish and resanded to 150 twice .
I wander if Southern California dry air is a contributing factor.


14 replies so far

View DrDirt's profile

DrDirt

4167 posts in 3203 days


#1 posted 07-13-2016 07:12 PM

I would await a response of PM from Charles Neil…. he is on here pretty frequently.

Actually i would PM him directly with your question since he makes the stuff.

-- 'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' ~George Carlin

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

21991 posts in 1799 days


#2 posted 07-13-2016 07:21 PM

Charles Neil is a member here. Send him a PM. He’s great to talk to.

-- Mother Nature created it, I just assemble it.

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#3 posted 07-13-2016 07:48 PM

Its not the Blotch control, its the dye, in order to meet VOC regulations they have to make the dyes dry super fast, I agree its an issue . Here is a Blog I wrote that will help to explain , We have issues with it as well . To be brief , whatever your definition of Haul A** is , this is where you need to exercise it. It does help if you let the Blotch control dry an extra day, it wont absorb the dye quite as fast, I usually have one wiping on, or better yet spraying and another wiping off, paper towels do the best, you have to move.

Dyes like transtint, or WD Lockwood where they are powders or concentrated liquid , and are mixed with just water, dry slower, GF , theirs are pre mixed , so they have to meet VOC regulations, and thats makes a world of difference, but they also make one of the best dyes I have ever used, so its tough , I know well .

https://intheworkshop.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/applying-dyes-stains-over-my-blotch-control-prestain/

Drop me a pm if you have more questions, always glad to help

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3666 posts in 1181 days


#4 posted 07-13-2016 08:07 PM

Would it help if dye was applied in cooler air with higher relative humidity after giving the blotch control an extra day to dry?

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#5 posted 07-13-2016 08:20 PM

Big block ,

It may, but all the premixed dye folks are having the same issue, I hear it every day, the Floetrol (blog) helps, but it has some glycerin in it, so you have to do a shellac mid coat to insure adhesion.

GF has some new stains , that are a water /oil hybrid, supposed to dry slower, and do better, I am testing them as we speak, ( if its new I have it and am testing it , believe me ) , it has alot of promise, I like it thus far.

Water base or more correctly put Waterbourne” is advancing at an alarming rate, they have figured out how to make oil based products be water transferable , meaning water is the medium by which oil based products are transfered.

The technology for water based finishes isnt difficult, ....Who figured it out , the cow, goat and any other milk making mammal. Think about it , the cow’s milk is full of fat , cream and so forth , but its mostly water, but it some how converts to a basic liquid, im not an expert on this, but I have let the cream rise to the top of a cow i milked and i have churned a hunk of butter or a 1000. Amazing isnt it

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#6 posted 07-13-2016 08:41 PM

to the OP’S original question let the BC dry another day, it cant dry to long, its designed to soften under waterbourne colorants so as to absorb them , drying conditions do effect, another day wont hurt,

View Plain's profile

Plain

157 posts in 159 days


#7 posted 07-13-2016 11:15 PM

Yes it dried over a weekend at relatively low humidity and about 77F temperature so there is no doubt it dried good. I tried to follow the instruction to a detail. I will try your suggestion to use a terry cloth + sponge pad instead of t-shirt.
Thanks.

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1189 posts in 1355 days


#8 posted 07-14-2016 01:00 AM

Charles, heard about your operation via your newsletter, glad to see you here. Hope you have a good recovery!

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#9 posted 07-14-2016 02:15 PM

Thanks Colonel

Im doing fine , and feeling much better,

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#10 posted 07-14-2016 02:15 PM

Plain,

The key is to get it on and wiped back as fast as you can,

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Plain

157 posts in 159 days


#11 posted 07-14-2016 06:12 PM



Plain,

The key is to get it on and wiped back as fast as you can,

- CharlesNeil


Need to ask someone to help me. One wipes it on, another follows with a paper towel and wipes it off.

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3331 days


#12 posted 07-14-2016 06:25 PM

that is exactly what I do as well, but using a stain pad, or even better a spray gun to get it on, is the fastest, just dont over wipe it.

Paper towels are also the best to wipe back they absorb more and faster .

View TMGStudioFurniture's profile

TMGStudioFurniture

55 posts in 280 days


#13 posted 07-14-2016 06:44 PM

I’ve found, more than once, that it can be a problem going from a small-sized test piece to a large, full-sized project. Just the scale of things can cause issues, just like what you are experiencing.

Drying time, and even grain patterns, can be simple on a small-scale, but when you try to roll them out on a bigger piece you can run into problems. Sometimes, what worked perfectly on a test piece doesn’t work at all on a large piece.

It’s possible (as mentioned) that applying the finish by hand works fine on small pieces, but the same finish would have to be sprayed on a larger one due to the working time.

-- https://www.etsy.com/shop/TMGStudioFurniture

View Plain's profile

Plain

157 posts in 159 days


#14 posted 07-16-2016 03:43 AM

Thanks Charles,
The stain pads and a helper worked wonderfully!
So much better than a t-shirt and alone.
One corner got missed when wiping but its not a problem. I use one lighter color and follow darker color when it dries. The reason is laughable. I stained light the first piece. Then we did not like the color, bought the darker one and covered it over. Now as I build new furniture pieces I have to follow the same procedure to match the colors :-)

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