LumberJocks

square?????

  • Advertise with us

« back to Hand Tools forum

Forum topic by jwmalone posted 07-13-2016 12:48 AM 1542 views 2 times favorited 63 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View jwmalone's profile

jwmalone

769 posts in 169 days


07-13-2016 12:48 AM

Okay I’m down to the Pythagorean theorem to square any damn thing. I know cheap tools are cheap for a reason but come on. Can anyone recommend a Mid priced combination square that’s worth a damn. Or for that matter who makes a decent line of squares, levels and such that are like I said mid priced. I really like my combo`s but if its not square its worthless. And if anyone recommends Swanson I`ll scream!! Their crap is junk 50/50 chance of it being true and the small aluminum squares in this heat lose true pretty fast. Ill never buy another thing from swanson ( not for cabinet making) thanks for any help you guys can offer.

-- "Boy you could get more work done it you quit flapping your pie hole" Grandpa


63 replies so far

View SuperCubber's profile

SuperCubber

875 posts in 1751 days


#1 posted 07-13-2016 01:07 AM

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1807 posts in 605 days


#2 posted 07-13-2016 01:15 AM

PEC makes excellent tools and their combination squares are guaranteed to .001 over 6”. Taylor Tool Works has a lot of factory seconds on their eBay store. You really can’t beat the value.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View WellExecuted's profile

WellExecuted

33 posts in 780 days


#3 posted 07-13-2016 01:57 AM

I second PEC blemished squares. Harry Epsteins has them at great prices: http://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/tool-brand/products-engineering.html

I bought my 4” double square from them and have been very pleased with the accuracy and quality. Glad to have a fine made in USA product.

-- https://instagram.com/well.executed/

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

692 posts in 1265 days


#4 posted 07-13-2016 03:44 AM

Groz makes some nice fixed squares and straight edges.
ButThey are hard to find.The quality is up there with starret.
I bought mine at Rockler they carried them for a short time.
If you see one get it.

View WillliamMSP's profile

WillliamMSP

757 posts in 1071 days


#5 posted 07-13-2016 03:51 AM

+1 to the PEC cosmetic seconds – mine are great.

-- Practice makes less sucky. (Bill, Minneapolis, MN)

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

7179 posts in 2044 days


#6 posted 07-13-2016 03:54 AM

http://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/tool-brand/products-engineering.html

Super cool people to do business with ^, they reduced my shipping cost on an item by half and I
found that to be very pleasant and their products are great.

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7934 posts in 1847 days


#7 posted 07-13-2016 07:09 AM

I’ve heard great things about PEC seconds but I have to wonder why they have so many. They have more seconds than firsts. I bought a Blue Point 12” because it was listed as Made in USA but the listing was wrong, they are made in ???? probably Taiwan or China. Seller offered to take it back but I got it for about the same price as a PEC second and it is dead nutz square and I really like it. I also have an old Lufkin 6” that is dead nutz. I’ve never owned Empire and I’ve read good things about them but having looked at them in the store I don’t think they are quite the same level of quality as my Blue Point or Lufkin combos. If you’re going to splurge a bit as a woodworker, the combo square is a good place to do it. I’d like to pick up a 24” combination square someday.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View ScottM's profile

ScottM

347 posts in 1613 days


#8 posted 07-13-2016 12:02 PM

Silly question, but how do you guys validate “dead nutz” square? Seems like you’d have the chicken or the egg debate over and over. You have to have something square to find out if the other tool is square, but how do you know your first tool is square without something known square…

You could use the Pythagorean thing but your making pencil marks and measuring and if you’re looking at .001” error you can easily exceed that with a pencil and ruler, right?

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1807 posts in 605 days


#9 posted 07-13-2016 12:13 PM



Silly question, but how do you guys validate “dead nutz” square? Seems like you d have the chicken or the egg debate over and over. You have to have something square to find out if the other tool is square, but how do you know your first tool is square without something known square…

You could use the Pythagorean thing but your making pencil marks and measuring and if you re looking at .001” error you can easily exceed that with a pencil and ruler, right?

- ScottM

I have access to CMM and optical comparators so it’s pretty easy for me. You can register off a flat edge of a board and scribe a line then flip the square and scribe another line. If the 2 are parallel, then it’s square. You can pretty much check any 2 squares against each other too. If they are square to each other, then either they are square or they are both out the same amount in the same direction and the odds of that are pretty minuscule. Of course if they aren’t square, you won’t know which is true and which isn’t.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View ScottM's profile

ScottM

347 posts in 1613 days


#10 posted 07-13-2016 12:30 PM



I have access to CMM and optical comparators so it s pretty easy for me. You can register off a flat edge of a board and scribe a line then flip the square and scribe another line. If the 2 are parallel, then it s square. You can pretty much check any 2 squares against each other too. If they are square to each other, then either they are square or they are both out the same amount in the same direction and the odds of that are pretty minuscule. Of course if they aren’t square, you won t know which is true and which isn’t.

- HokieKen

Thanks, good info. I think I’d heard of the flipping the square and comparing parallel before but always forget about it. It’s the highlighted part that I still end up in an argument with myself on!!

View jdh122's profile

jdh122

879 posts in 2284 days


#11 posted 07-13-2016 12:35 PM

If you go in person to buy your square, you can check it in the store using a pencil and the flat edge of a shelf. Just keep trying different ones until you get one that works. Also, combination squares can be trued up with a piece of sandpaper: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-square-a-combination-square/
I have and like one of the PEC combination squares but if you’re willing to fiddle you can tune up a cheaper one.

-- Jeremy, in the Acadian forests

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1807 posts in 605 days


#12 posted 07-13-2016 12:55 PM


If you go in person to buy your square, you can check it in the store using a pencil and the flat edge of a shelf. Just keep trying different ones until you get one that works. Also, combination squares can be trued up with a piece of sandpaper: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-square-a-combination-square/
I have and like one of the PEC combination squares but if you re willing to fiddle you can tune up a cheaper one.

- jdh122

Indeed, it’s not hard to true a cheap square (assuming the blade is straight). But, beware of the Aluminum ones – they won’t stay true long because of the wear between the head and the blade.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View WillliamMSP's profile

WillliamMSP

757 posts in 1071 days


#13 posted 07-13-2016 01:17 PM


I ve heard great things about PEC seconds but I have to wonder why they have so many.
- Rick M.

The voids/flaws that cause them to be designated as ‘seconds’ can be pretty minuscule. I have several pieces of cast cookware from Le Creuset and it’s the same story – you look over them very closely and you either find something and you say, “that’s it?” or you don’t find anything at all.

Frankly, I would imagine that selling the seconds is what allows them to price the firsts reasonably, too; if they scrapped/recast the seconds, they’d recoup some material, but they’d still have to account for the additional time and material handling with a higher price.

-- Practice makes less sucky. (Bill, Minneapolis, MN)

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2198 posts in 947 days


#14 posted 07-13-2016 01:26 PM

I think Igaging makes decent stuff.
Whats so aggravating is getting 1/2 way into a project and finding out your square isn’t square.

The idea of spending $100 on a square irks me, too, but after my last project, rather than fiddling around trying to correct the square, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett combo.

Way I look at it, its about 2 times eating out with my wife…..

I haven’t done it, but they say you can make your own squares that can be very accurate.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1807 posts in 605 days


#15 posted 07-13-2016 02:26 PM



I think Igaging makes decent stuff.
Whats so aggravating is getting 1/2 way into a project and finding out your square isn t square.

The idea of spending $100 on a square irks me, too, but after my last project, rather than fiddling around trying to correct the square, I bit the bullet and bought a Starrett combo.

Way I look at it, its about 2 times eating out with my wife…..

I haven t done it, but they say you can make your own squares that can be very accurate.

- rwe2156

IMHO, you made the right call. I have 6,12 & 18 inch Starrett combos and 6 and 12 inch Starrett trys. So far, every one has been bulletproof. And the try-squares are 50 years old or better.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

showing 1 through 15 of 63 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com