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Improving table saw dust collection w/zero clearance insert

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Forum topic by Woodchuck2010 posted 06-28-2016 04:06 AM 771 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Woodchuck2010

504 posts in 319 days


06-28-2016 04:06 AM

Has anyone drilled holes in their zero clearance insert to improve dust collection? I’ve noticed that I get better collection with the stock insert because of the larger opening. Just wondering if theres been any success with this done.

-- Chuck, Michigan,


21 replies so far

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

976 posts in 913 days


#1 posted 06-28-2016 04:23 AM

All the dust you can capture is in the blade gullet with a ZCI. How is reducing the suction (by adding air) going to increase the vacuum?

M

-- Madmark - Madmark2150@yahoo.com Wiretreefarm.com

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 684 days


#2 posted 06-28-2016 04:40 AM



All the dust you can capture is in the blade gullet with a ZCI. How is reducing the suction (by adding air) going to increase the vacuum?

M

- MadMark

Dust doesn’t get directed into the dust collector because of a vacuum. It’s directed there by airflow and if there is not a path for make-up air to enter into the cabinet, then the dust collector is choked off and becomes less efficient.

If the air can come in from the side of the blade and down, then that will help direct the dust downwards, towards the collection hose rather than being flung up and around the blade and into the air. A ZCI is to help the quality of the cut and has nothing to do with dust collection. It will actually hinder the airflow. Any makeup air has to come from below the table, or the side and thus will cause the airflow to counter the flow you would want.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3928 posts in 1954 days


#3 posted 06-28-2016 11:55 AM

But when the saw is making dust isn’t the insert covered by the workpiece (?) (unless your cleaning up an edge.) I see this suggestion often and can’t help but wonder about it’s usefulness. I just switch to the factory insert if I’m cleaning up an edge.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7208 posts in 2836 days


#4 posted 06-28-2016 12:08 PM

I don’t know how effective it is, but the theory of drawing in extra air from the insert seems logical to me, as long as there’s suction coming from below. Most of my ZCI’s have an extra hole cut just in front of the blade (in addition to the finger hole), in hopes of getting a little extra downward dust flow there.


-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2190 posts in 941 days


#5 posted 06-28-2016 01:41 PM

This is a drawback of ZCI’s. Above the blade collection is needed.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Woodchuck2010's profile

Woodchuck2010

504 posts in 319 days


#6 posted 06-28-2016 02:24 PM


But when the saw is making dust isn t the insert covered by the workpiece (?) (unless your cleaning up an edge.) I see this suggestion often and can t help but wonder about it s usefulness. I just switch to the factory insert if I m cleaning up an edge.

- Fred Hargis

I see what you mean. Hmmm. I guess overhead collection is the best way to get the extra dust.

-- Chuck, Michigan,

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Woodchuck2010

504 posts in 319 days


#7 posted 06-28-2016 02:26 PM



This is a drawback of ZCI s. Above the blade collection is needed.

- rwe2156

Agreed.

-- Chuck, Michigan,

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 684 days


#8 posted 06-28-2016 03:20 PM



But when the saw is making dust isn t the insert covered by the workpiece (?) (unless your cleaning up an edge.) I see this suggestion often and can t help but wonder about it s usefulness. I just switch to the factory insert if I m cleaning up an edge.

- Fred Hargis

You’re right. I did have that typed in there that unless you’re cutting an edge, air is blocked regardless of whether you have holes or not. It was late and as I was editing my post, I deleted all that part. Nice catch, haha.

And definitely an overhead collection point is needed, especially with the ZCI.

View unbob's profile

unbob

718 posts in 1364 days


#9 posted 06-28-2016 03:27 PM

My heavy Delta cabinet saw has very good dust pick up with the stock insert and Blade guard. When I use ZCIs, I use the Excalibur overhead collector along with the base port with reasonable results.

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

976 posts in 913 days


#10 posted 06-28-2016 04:08 PM

Overhead dust collection with a ZCI esp. with a buried cut, is useless. The rising back of the blade doesn’t bring sawdust up. Only the leading edge cuts & makes dust. When it’s cutting the gullet is buried and is the only place that the dust can go. As the gullets open below the table centrifical force & gravity clean the gullet for the next go-round.

AZ its the VACUUM that moves the air. After all you don’t connect the saw to a blower

M

-- Madmark - Madmark2150@yahoo.com Wiretreefarm.com

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1110 posts in 2405 days


#11 posted 06-30-2016 07:12 AM

Ditto (X5 & Excalibur)

P.S. I try to keep the Excalibur to the far left so I have as much room as possible for push shoes.

My heavy Delta cabinet saw has very good dust pick up with the stock insert and Blade guard. When I use ZCIs, I use the Excalibur overhead collector along with the base port with reasonable results.

- unbob


View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2190 posts in 941 days


#12 posted 06-30-2016 11:56 AM



Overhead dust collection with a ZCI esp. with a buried cut, is useless. The rising back of the blade doesn t bring sawdust up. Only the leading edge cuts & makes dust. When it s cutting the gullet is buried and is the only place that the dust can go. As the gullets open below the table centrifical force & gravity clean the gullet for the next go-round.

AZ its the VACUUM that moves the air. After all you don t connect the saw to a blower

M

- MadMark

And your point is what, Don’t do it at all? Or don’t do it because for cutting strips it won’t work? Which is maybe 5% of TS use for most people?

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

693 posts in 684 days


#13 posted 06-30-2016 01:13 PM


Overhead dust collection with a ZCI esp. with a buried cut, is useless. The rising back of the blade doesn t bring sawdust up. Only the leading edge cuts & makes dust. When it s cutting the gullet is buried and is the only place that the dust can go. As the gullets open below the table centrifical force & gravity clean the gullet for the next go-round.

AZ its the VACUUM that moves the air. After all you don t connect the saw to a blower

M

- MadMark
And your point is what, Don t do it at all? Or don t do it because for cutting strips it won t work? Which is maybe 5% of TS use for most people?

- rwe2156

He never has a point. He makes up one situation which was not even mentioned by the OP to show where it won’t help and then says that’s the reason it’s not ever needed.

You can tell how clueless he is when he doesn’t realize that a dust collector IS a blower…

One thing I wish this forum had was an ignore mode so a person’s posts wouldn’t have to be seen.

View distrbd's profile

distrbd

2227 posts in 1907 days


#14 posted 06-30-2016 02:03 PM

Dust doesn t get directed into the dust collector because of a vacuum. It s directed there by airflow and if there is not a path for make-up air to enter into the cabinet, then the dust collector is choked off and becomes less efficient.

- AZWoody


That’s a great point,valid in my opinion.

-- Ken from Ontario, Canada

View Woodchuck2010's profile

Woodchuck2010

504 posts in 319 days


#15 posted 06-30-2016 02:12 PM


Overhead dust collection with a ZCI esp. with a buried cut, is useless. The rising back of the blade doesn t bring sawdust up. Only the leading edge cuts & makes dust. When it s cutting the gullet is buried and is the only place that the dust can go. As the gullets open below the table centrifical force & gravity clean the gullet for the next go-round.

AZ its the VACUUM that moves the air. After all you don t connect the saw to a blower

M

- MadMark
And your point is what, Don t do it at all? Or don t do it because for cutting strips it won t work? Which is maybe 5% of TS use for most people?

- rwe2156

He never has a point. He makes up one situation which was not even mentioned by the OP to show where it won t help and then says that s the reason it s not ever needed.

You can tell how clueless he is when he doesn t realize that a dust collector IS a blower…

One thing I wish this forum had was an ignore mode so a person s posts wouldn t have to be seen.

- AZWoody

Hahaha. Bingo!

-- Chuck, Michigan,

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