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Forum topic by jssussex posted 06-27-2016 09:50 PM 1358 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jssussex

39 posts in 3181 days


06-27-2016 09:50 PM

Topic tags/keywords: veneer question veneering

I need to make a wood veneered panel 3×4 feet that will hold magnets. I’ve had very little success using Google or Bing finding a affordable pre-made panel. If you have advice on how to veneer to metal I would appreciate it. I’m concerned that contact glue will not be reliable. I don’t have a vacuum but I do have the veneer and can clamp and use weight.

Jim

-- Jim - Sussex Wi


14 replies so far

View jbay's profile

jbay

819 posts in 367 days


#1 posted 06-28-2016 12:26 AM

You don’t give any other info as if it’s going to have an edge or go into a frame or just cover the face of the metal. If it’s just going to cover the face I would use contact cement.
I think contact is going to stick to the metal better than anything else, but shipright may tell you hide glue would be better, IDK..
I also prefer wood on wood (2 ply) veneer over paper backed veneer.

-- My “MO” involves Judging others, playing God, acting as LJs law enforcement, and never admitting any of my ideas could possibly be wrong or anyone else's idea could possibly be correct -- (A1Jim)

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JBrow

822 posts in 388 days


#2 posted 06-28-2016 02:28 AM

jssussex,

I assume that since you want to veneer a piece of metal that you want the face of the completed project to have the appearance of wood while allowing magnets to stick to the veneer surface. An alternative idea is to use magnetic primer on the substrate. My understanding is that this is a specialty paint that is a primer that contains metal filings.

For your project, once the substrate surface has been primed, the veneer could be applied to the substrate. Since I have not done this nor have I used magnetic paint, I would have a couple of questions that could maybe be answered with a little experimenting.

My first question would be whether contact cement would sufficiently bond the veneer to the surface primed with magnetic paint; or would a top coat of something like perhaps polyurethane be required. The second question is whether enough primer could be applied to the substrate for the magnets to stick well to the veneer. I suppose part of the answer is the strength of the magnets.

If, on the other hand, the veneer will be painted, the magnetic primer would be the ticket.

If interested in magnetic primer, it is available at Home Depot…

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Specialty-30-oz-Magnetic-Primer-Kit-247596/202351175?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D24-Paint%7c&gclid=COKB07zRyc0CFQYuaQodOyAPnA&gclsrc=aw.ds

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jssussex

39 posts in 3181 days


#3 posted 06-28-2016 02:45 AM

Jbay and JBrow thanks for your responses. The piece after it is veneered, will be cutting with a CNC to an outline of a country. the magnets will be placed and moved around to indicated key locations. The wood will e finished natural. The magnets are high poser but I don’t believe there would be enough iron in the primer to hold the magnet through the veneer. But the ideas are good.

Jim

-- Jim - Sussex Wi

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Natobious

37 posts in 173 days


#4 posted 06-28-2016 02:58 AM

Depending on size the difference in thermal or moisture expansion may be a problem with metal and wood.

Have you considered a magnetic vinyl sheet, some are even peel and stick. Then you would have the strength of both magnets separated by veneer. This might not be rigid enough though.

Thinking outside the box here.
Could you CNC a hollow in the back of the wood with say a 1/4 internal offset around the edge of your country.
CNC the metal to match the hollow.
Hold the metal in place with metal tabs like the backing in a picture frame.
Obviously the wood would need to be thicker, but I was thinking a high grade plywood can come with nice veneers.
Probably would work better for some country shapes than others.
Also, just my opinion, no matter how you do it I think super magnets are a must.

One more also, that magnetic paint is used on some slot car tracks, and at least for that application it does work. It might be worth a try; save your CNC from cutting steel.

Anyways good luck and let us know how you work it out.

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7935 posts in 1848 days


#5 posted 06-28-2016 04:08 AM

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Lazyman

706 posts in 855 days


#6 posted 06-28-2016 04:08 AM

From what I have read, an epoxy glue sounds like the best adhesive for this though contact cement is supposed to work on metal too as long as it is not a water based cement. I did find this link about gluing wood veneer to metal:
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/faq-veneer-glue.htm#VG19

What kind of cutter does the CNC machine use. Just wandering if it can handle both wood and steel? If it generates too much heat while cutting that could cause problems with most adhesives.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View jssussex's profile

jssussex

39 posts in 3181 days


#7 posted 06-28-2016 05:45 AM

Rick M thanks for the link. Look about what I was going to attempt.

Lazyman
I’d found joewoodworkers links and I’ll be using a 1/4 inch carbide down cutter to cut the material. I have a 3 HP watercooled spindle and probably blow air on the bit to add some bit cooling.

-- Jim - Sussex Wi

View Planeman40's profile

Planeman40

805 posts in 2228 days


#8 posted 06-28-2016 04:50 PM

A suggestion.

I would make a long distance call to the 3-M company (Customer Service – 1-888-364-3577) and ask for someone who could advise you on choosing an adhesive for bonding wood and metal. They have technical people to do just this. They may even send you a sample can of adhesive to try. I have done this in the past.

Planeman

-- Always remember: It is a mathematical certainty that half the people in this country are below average in intelligence!

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

3927 posts in 2711 days


#9 posted 06-28-2016 05:10 PM

A better approach might be to cut the metal out on the CNC before laminating the veneer to the surface. You can then use a trim router to trim the veneer to the metal. This eliminates any problem with heat build-up. Rare earth magnets have tremendous holding power, even through the thickest veneer. By veneer, I’m guessing you are using something around .030” thick.

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jssussex

39 posts in 3181 days


#10 posted 06-28-2016 08:49 PM

Planeman thank for the great idea. I agree 3M probably has someone who can provide me with this adhesion question. Thanks.

Mr Ron
I will be using 30 gage sheet metal which is pretty thin. This will be sandwhich between 1/4”Baltic birch and oak veneer. But your idea to cut the metal/Baltic birch first and then laminate the oak veneer and trim that, is worth trying.

-- Jim - Sussex Wi

View splatman's profile

splatman

563 posts in 866 days


#11 posted 06-28-2016 09:26 PM

Lay the steel and BB plywood on the CNC machine and cut your shape with a few thou extra all around and leaving tabs connecting the shape and offcuts. Drill a few ¼” holes in the offcut part of the workpiece. Put ¼” dowels in said holes.

Glue together the steel and plywood, using said dowels to line up the steel and plywood layers, and also glue on the veneer, then run the same program again to cut the veneer to match the shape, then trim off the extra few thou, which will (hopefully) trim away any mismatch. Because it will be such a tiny bit, local heating should be a small issue. Experiment on scrap material first.

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jssussex

39 posts in 3181 days


#12 posted 06-28-2016 09:33 PM

I love this group. Splatman, that is such a great approach. All these ideas have their merits. I love the idea of the tabs and the alignment holes.
Thanks

Jim

-- Jim - Sussex Wi

View jbay's profile

jbay

819 posts in 367 days


#13 posted 06-28-2016 09:39 PM

I wouldn’t try to line up the veneer over the dowels.
I think there is a lot of overthinking going on.
If it were me I would just spray the adhesive on, stick the veneer and cut it out….call it done…
I’ve stuck thousands of feet of Chemetal to wood with contact cement with never a problem. I don’t see any difference with 30 gauge sheet metal.
JMO

-- My “MO” involves Judging others, playing God, acting as LJs law enforcement, and never admitting any of my ideas could possibly be wrong or anyone else's idea could possibly be correct -- (A1Jim)

View splatman's profile

splatman

563 posts in 866 days


#14 posted 06-29-2016 12:21 AM

The dowels are just to align the metal onto the plywood when gluing it on. The veneer does dot even enter the picture until after this step.

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