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Aniline dye on oak dining table?

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Forum topic by Ardwood posted 06-27-2016 07:06 PM 502 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ardwood

7 posts in 163 days


06-27-2016 07:06 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question oak finishing

Hi,

I’m a newbie here with a question about aniline dye. I’m hoping to use it on an oak dining table to get that really cool look where the grain almost pops out in 3D.

I can’t find anything online about aniline dye on dining tables. This seems like a clue that it might not be the greatest idea… perhaps because of the toxicity of the dye? Though I assume that would be a non-issue with the right top coat(s).

One more question about the dye: anyone have experience watering black down to achieve more of a “gray” look?

Many thanks,

Ardwood


14 replies so far

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pintodeluxe

4856 posts in 2278 days


#1 posted 06-27-2016 07:12 PM

There are lots of resources for analine dye online. The fact that it is a dining table makes no difference, the information you read will apply to any indoor furniture.

Oak takes dye really well, and uniformly too (unlike cherry or alder). Homestead Finishing is one of my favorite resources for dye… http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/ Jeff Jewitt has really nailed down the finishing process for stain-over-dye techniques. I do find the process overly complicated, and don’t use it much anymore. I found a single stain method that achieves similar results, so I opt for that.

Good luck with it.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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Ardwood

7 posts in 163 days


#2 posted 06-27-2016 08:30 PM



There are lots of resources for analine dye online. The fact that it is a dining table makes no difference, the information you read will apply to any indoor furniture.

Oak takes dye really well, and uniformly too (unlike cherry or alder). Homestead Finishing is one of my favorite resources for dye… http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/ Jeff Jewitt has really nailed down the finishing process for stain-over-dye techniques. I do find the process overly complicated, and don t use it much anymore. I found a single stain method that achieves similar results, so I opt for that.

Good luck with it.

- pintodeluxe

Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply!

Out of curiosity, what is the preferred method you mentioned?

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pintodeluxe

4856 posts in 2278 days


#3 posted 06-27-2016 09:18 PM

I switched to Rodda brand oil based stain. It dries in 24 hours, then I topcoat with 2 sprayed coats of Rudd lacquer.

Rodda is only available in the NW corner of the U.S., but it is a top notch finish. Varathane is another good choice for oil based stains.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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Ardwood

7 posts in 163 days


#4 posted 06-27-2016 09:33 PM



I switched to Rodda brand oil based stain. It dries in 24 hours, then I topcoat with 2 sprayed coats of Rudd lacquer.

Rodda is only available in the NW corner of the U.S., but it is a top notch finish. Varathane is another good choice for oil based stains.

- pintodeluxe

Thanks again for the reply.

From what I’ve gathered, it seems like stain puts a pigment down on top of the wood and masks it to some degree. Whereas dye soaks into the wood and leaves the look of the grain very much in tact. I’m not sure if all aniline dyes have the same effect or it’s just the featured brand, but I really like the slightly metallic sheen of the wood in this video. I love how it seems to change depending on the viewing angle. I would of course be watering the black powder down to get more of a ‘gray’ look and hopefully a lot more visibility into the shapes and patterns in the wood.

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pintodeluxe

4856 posts in 2278 days


#5 posted 06-27-2016 10:46 PM

Guitar makers often go for that look. Perhaps you can find more resources in instrument building forums.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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OSU55

1058 posts in 1454 days


#6 posted 06-28-2016 03:58 PM

There are several ways to achieve that type of look. The most straightforward is WD Lockwood oil based dye mixed with poly thinned 1:1 with min spirits. Powder is mixed with naptha, then added into the wiping varnish. It takes some experimentation to get the color depth desired – deep colors need the dye alone applied, then coated with the varnish. The dye needs a little varnish in it for a binder. The final topcoats can be clear varnish. The wood should be sanded to 600 if you want hi gloss. It will take a lot of coats of wipe on to get a film thick enough for a dining table. This project finished this way on a lathe. Here is some info on wiping varnish.

This project was finished using a more complicated process as detailed in the project entry. Here is a furniture project in oak that may give you some ideas.

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3335 days


#7 posted 06-28-2016 08:19 PM

pm sent

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Ardwood

7 posts in 163 days


#8 posted 06-28-2016 10:02 PM



Guitar makers often go for that look. Perhaps you can find more resources in instrument building forums.

- pintodeluxe

Good point. I noticed a lot of great effects on guitars. The thing I’m puzzled by though is why no one seems to be using aniline dye for dining tables. (At least based on a number of Google searches.) It makes me wonder if there’s some kind of limitation I’m not understanding – like I had assumed, maybe toxicity in the dye is a food safety issue on a surface where people are eating daily.


There are several ways to achieve that type of look. The most straightforward is WD Lockwood oil based dye mixed with poly thinned 1:1 with min spirits. Powder is mixed with naptha, then added into the wiping varnish. It takes some experimentation to get the color depth desired – deep colors need the dye alone applied, then coated with the varnish. The dye needs a little varnish in it for a binder. The final topcoats can be clear varnish. The wood should be sanded to 600 if you want hi gloss. It will take a lot of coats of wipe on to get a film thick enough for a dining table. This project finished this way on a lathe. Here is some info on wiping varnish.

This project was finished using a more complicated process as detailed in the project entry. Here is a furniture project in oak that may give you some ideas.

- OSU55

Wow – looks gorgeous. Thanks for sharing!

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upinflames

209 posts in 1626 days


#9 posted 06-29-2016 05:35 PM

Yeah you can pretty much use the dye to bring out the grain and irregularities in the wood. It’s not a complicated process, it’s used on dining tables from any manufacturer you want to point at. The best thing to do is get some dye and play around on some scrap, see what you get. There is no need for top secret PM’s and cloak and dagger attitude. Get you some Keda dyes, 5 colors for around 15 bucks, mix it with DNA or water and it works fine, cheap way to start, see if you like it.

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Ardwood

7 posts in 163 days


#10 posted 06-29-2016 06:15 PM


Yeah you can pretty much use the dye to bring out the grain and irregularities in the wood. It s not a complicated process, it s used on dining tables from any manufacturer you want to point at. The best thing to do is get some dye and play around on some scrap, see what you get. There is no need for top secret PM s and cloak and dagger attitude. Get you some Keda dyes, 5 colors for around 15 bucks, mix it with DNA or water and it works fine, cheap way to start, see if you like it.

- upinflames

Thanks. I’m gonna give it a try. I’m in Canada though so considering Lee Valley’s aniline dye – about half as much as Keda after currency conversion and shipping.

The one thing I’m not sure about is the part about aniline dye being used in tables from various manufacturers. Or rather, if it is used, are they putting something else on top to mute the three-dimensional sheen you get with just Keda and a few clear top coats? You can see this effect in the video above – it almost looks like the wood isn’t flat and changes shape from different angles. I’ve never seen that on a tabletop before. Do you have any examples?

Thanks again – Ardwood

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Ardwood

7 posts in 163 days


#11 posted 06-29-2016 06:20 PM

Here is a better example of the look I’m talking about:.

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3335 days


#12 posted 06-29-2016 07:32 PM

Aniline dyes are so 1990 , no one uses them alot any more, check out “metal complex dyes”, much more color fast and super deep colors.

Aniline dyes are earth pigments, like Indigo, which is still grown and its #1 use is for dyes for Blue jeans.
Remember when , if you washed a red shirt and a white shirt , you got 2 pink shirts, and how clothing faded so bad, thats Aniline dyes, notice how that isnt the case these days, thats Metal complex, basically it man made pigments.

Transtint is metal complex i think except maybe the blue, Check W D Lockwood out of Brooklyn Ny , they have the powdered Metal complex dyes. A little more pricy but worth it .

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Ardwood

7 posts in 163 days


#13 posted 06-29-2016 07:36 PM



Aniline dyes are so 1990 , no one uses them alot any more, check out “metal complex dyes”, much more color fast and super deep colors.

Aniline dyes are earth pigments, like Indigo, which is still grown and its #1 use is for dyes for Blue jeans.
Remember when , if you washed a red shirt and a white shirt , you got 2 pink shirts, and how clothing faded so bad, thats Aniline dyes, notice how that isnt the case these days, thats Metal complex, basically it man made pigments.

- CharlesNeil

Thanks for pointing out the metal complex dyes – I’ll check them out.

Though is color-fastness really an issue if I’m going for a gray table? Fading might actually give it more character.

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CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3335 days


#14 posted 06-29-2016 07:46 PM

grey is a tough color to obtain, because there are no White dyes, Lockwood has some nice ones, they are the only ones I am aware of that does, General Finishes just came out with a new “weathered grey “stain , I had gotten some old weathered grey yellow pine off a tobacco barn off the southern coast of NC , it became our test model to match,

The issue with any Grey is it will darken when it gets a top coat, especially a solvent or oil .

Call Lock wood and get a 1oz pack, of several greys they have we use Silver grey mostly .They also have pearl grey, and reactive grey .. its not part of their regular list, so give them a call.

Is color fast important , thats your decision .

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