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Forum topic by Tony1212 posted 06-08-2016 07:05 PM 632 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Tony1212

111 posts in 1194 days


06-08-2016 07:05 PM

Topic tags/keywords: timber framing lean to design

I (i.e. my wife) want to build a fully roofed space for my hot tub. I want to try my hand at some timber framing and figured this would be a good way to learn.

I want a “lean-to” style rather than a peaked roof. It won’t be attached to a house, but close enough that that I worry that water on one side of the peaked roof would be directed at the house’s foundation.

I found this picture online:

My question is how are the rafters attached? Specifically, how are the rafters attached to the high beam? From what I’ve seen elsewhere, the rafters on the low beam use bird mouths. Would I just use bird mouths on the high beam, too? Or is there a better option?

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs


19 replies so far

View muleskinner's profile

muleskinner

880 posts in 1896 days


#1 posted 06-08-2016 09:43 PM

That framing plan is near identical to my wood shed. I used nail plates on both end of the rafters.

-- Visualize whirled peas

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

5721 posts in 2827 days


#2 posted 06-08-2016 11:54 PM

A friend of mine has something simlar, actually quite large, and all the timbers are notched to fit the beams.
And each is screwed with fairly large stainless deck screws.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

14940 posts in 2149 days


#3 posted 06-09-2016 12:45 AM

There are a bunch of timber framers on The Forestry Forum who are great guys with a lot of experience.

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

View mahdee's profile

mahdee

3547 posts in 1227 days


#4 posted 06-09-2016 01:07 AM

Hi,
I have some step by step instructions on how I built my log home that has a timber frame structure on the inside. Also,my wife and I built a 2 story timber frame shop/studio in about a year. Feel free to contact me for any questions.

-- earthartandfoods.com

View Greg In Maryland's profile

Greg In Maryland

550 posts in 2457 days


#5 posted 06-09-2016 01:16 AM

If you are worried about runoff, why not install a gutter and a downspout?

Greg

View splatman's profile

splatman

557 posts in 858 days


#6 posted 06-09-2016 01:26 AM



It won t be attached to a house, but close enough that that I worry that water on one side of the peaked roof would be directed at the house s foundation.

Would I just use bird mouths on the high beam, too?

- Tony1212

Direct the runoff away from the house.

Yes, use bird’s mouths for both beams. Why not?

I +1 using long stainless screws to fasten the rafters to the beams.

View Tony1212's profile

Tony1212

111 posts in 1194 days


#7 posted 06-09-2016 01:39 PM



That framing plan is near identical to my wood shed. I used nail plates on both end of the rafters.

- muleskinner

Ideally, I would like to avoid any visible hardware. I would hate to put so much time in making mortises and tenons and then have all of these galvanized plates across the top holding the rafters.

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

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Tony1212

111 posts in 1194 days


#8 posted 06-09-2016 01:49 PM



If you are worried about runoff, why not install a gutter and a downspout?

Greg

- Greg In Maryland


Direct the runoff away from the house.

- splatman

Valid suggestions, but the structure is close enough to the house that I don’t think it would be as visually appealing. It would be going almost against a flat, two story high wall. Besides, it’s only a 9×9 or 10×10 stucture. To get the proper roof pitch for snow, it would look weird.

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

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Tony1212

111 posts in 1194 days


#9 posted 06-09-2016 02:15 PM


Yes, use bird s mouths for both beams. Why not?

I +1 using long stainless screws to fasten the rafters to the beams.

- splatman

I forgot to address the “Why not”.

Well, that’s kind of what I’m asking. I’ve ordered some timber framing books, but they haven’t arrived yet. The joints that I’ve seen online do not include anything like this – they’re all peaked roofs. Using birds mouths at both ends of the rafters seems to make sense, but I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something.

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

View Tideline77's profile

Tideline77

58 posts in 231 days


#10 posted 06-09-2016 02:55 PM

if your using timbers I would consider pre-drilling and counter sink using galvanized lag bolts with washers…...

drill the hole at the same angle you would toe nail a rafter, use one lag bolt on each side of each rafter

the criss crossed lag bolts would be a strong connection in a windstorm

screws IMO would not be beefy enough in the event of a wind storm with an strong uplift on the roof structure

if you go with hardware, maybe use custom iron, painted and also lag bolts with the heads painted

at the base you can use galvanized hardware that you anchor with an anchor bolt that is epoxied into your concrete slab (if your on a slab) and cover the hardware with a trim base board

I used Marine treated rough sawn 8” x 8” posts on my front porch and trimmed the base with 1” x 8” marine treated pine…....but I had to let the 1×8” boards dry in my garage for 6 months air stacked

View SFP's profile

SFP

14 posts in 715 days


#11 posted 06-10-2016 10:41 AM

Birdsmouth the rafters on each end and use a through peg to secure. Most strength would be with a riven peg.

View devann's profile

devann

2200 posts in 2151 days


#12 posted 06-10-2016 04:46 PM

Birdsmouth notches at each beam connection is a standard practice. When framing rafters where connectors weren’t to be seen I’ve had to used lag screws, countersunk for the screw head & washer. The connections were per instructions from a structural engineer. The plan called for a single 14”x 3/4” lag screw per connection. It was to be drilled perpendicular to the top of the beam, centered on the width of the rafter. The 14” lag screws were used for 4”x 8” rafters screwed to 12”x 16” beams. I also used some 11”x 3/4” lag screws when building these trusses. They were used for the 4”x 6” webbing brace connections to the 4”x 8” top (rafter) & bottom (joist) cord connections.

You’ll probably blow a gasket when you see how much $ they want for lag screws that size. That and availability is scarce. I always had to order them from our industrial screw supplier well in advance of each project. They don’t carry them at most places you buy wood.

Another option may be found at some lumber yards that also deal with farm supplies. They will carry some 10”-12” x 1/4” screws with the washer already made into them. They are generally a torx drive head. I call ‘em barn screws, not sure of the proper name though.

-- Darrell, making more sawdust than I know what to do with

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Tony1212

111 posts in 1194 days


#13 posted 06-10-2016 05:06 PM

I haven’t gotten my timber framing book yet, so I haven’t really figured out how big my beams and rafters are going to be yet. Though I doubt I’ll be using 12”x16” beams. Or 4”x8” rafters. It’s going to be relatively small. 10’x10’ at the most.

The wife only wants some tinted, corrugated plastic as the roof because she wants to still be able to see the trees and sky. So it won’t be that heavy until it snows. And that’s what I have to account for.

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

5989 posts in 1788 days


#14 posted 06-10-2016 05:45 PM

It’s more work, but I think a combination of cutting a birds mouth in the rafter ends, along with a dado in the main support beams, is a good option. That’s what I did to secure the home build trusses to the timber plates on the Hall & Parlor style TF I built.

The dados are easy to cut with a skill saw (multiple passes and clean up with a chisel), but they will take some strength out of the beams, so make sure you know your snow loads and size them accordingly. You have a decent pitch on your roof, so I wouldn’t think that you would have to go too crazy.

Consider using rough cut timbers and rafters oversizing all the members, as nothing looks as awkward as a “skinny” TF.

The brackets suggested are quite strong, and especially good for wind loads that will tend to lift the roof off of it’s supports, but to be hones, you would probably be fine toe nailing them with 16 P spikes. But where’s the fun in that.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View Tideline77's profile

Tideline77

58 posts in 231 days


#15 posted 06-10-2016 05:50 PM

it sounds to me like you only need basic wood framing knowledge for what your building, if your not using oversized framing members

timber framing would be using large dimension beams and posts

you could use 6” x 6” posts and doubled 2×10” header beams and then 2×6” rafters

you could just thru bolt the header to a notched 6×6” post with 2 galvanized bolts on each post
a 2×6” rafter could be nailed or screwed to the 2×10’s

if your clear sheeting is corrugated you will need to user nailer strips across the rafters

so the corrugations run the rake of the roof

these are not shown in your picture in the OP

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