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Forum topic by Craftsman113 posted 06-06-2016 06:15 AM 619 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Craftsman113

2 posts in 183 days


06-06-2016 06:15 AM

Topic tags/keywords: table saw question advice craftsman 113 contractor saw tablesaw

Hello All,
Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been using an old craftsman Radial Arm Saw and benchtop Dewalt saw for a while, but it was time for something better. I just purchased, for $80.00, a cast iron Craftsman 113, with 2 cast iron extension wings. I am already planning on some upgrades, but I wanted to get some crowd opinions,
Here are some upgrades I am planning on getting:
Paddle Switch-$10
Freud Thin Kerf Blade-$37
Incra V27 Miter Gauge-$75 I was going to get a link belt for $27, but I saw that the pulley upgrade kit was $50, so I thought that IF I would notice a difference, I would just get the kit which includes a link belt as well Thoughts?
Total-$172
The big question is
*Should I sink money into it, or should I buy a fence, like a Delta T3 (Fence suggestions are welcome), or should I hold off and try to make due with the stock fence. It is aligned to the miter slot, as is the blade.
Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you all.


19 replies so far

View derrick3636's profile

derrick3636

70 posts in 599 days


#1 posted 06-06-2016 09:09 AM



Hello All,
Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been using an old craftsman Radial Arm Saw and benchtop Dewalt saw for a while, but it was time for something better. I just purchased, for $80.00, a cast iron Craftsman 113, with 2 cast iron extension wings. I am already planning on some upgrades, but I wanted to get some crowd opinions,
Here are some upgrades I am planning on getting:
Paddle Switch-$10
Freud Thin Kerf Blade-$37
Incra V27 Miter Gauge-$75 I was going to get a link belt for $27, but I saw that the pulley upgrade kit was $50, so I thought that IF I would notice a difference, I would just get the kit which includes a link belt as well Thoughts?
Total-$172
The big question is
*Should I sink money into it, or should I buy a fence, like a Delta T3 (Fence suggestions are welcome), or should I hold off and try to make due with the stock fence. It is aligned to the miter slot, as is the blade.
Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you all.

- Craftsman113

Hello,

I don’t have much useful help. I picked up a cheap 113 off of CL and have similar upgrade goals as you. I was going to only upgrade the belt at first, but at the price that in-line sells their kits, it doesn’t make much sense for me to NOT upgrade the pulleys as well. I also plan on doing the PALS from in-line as well. It’s another relatively cheap, and I’m sure needed upgrade.
From there, I plan on utilizing the stock fence. For the beginner projects I’ve been doing, it’ll work just fine. That way I can keep my eyes open on CL & Ebay for an upgrade, or I can piece together this design, that seems to be working great for other members here:
http://lumberjocks.com/Hutch/blog/2740
I found a local place that sells the 8020 stuff. I just need to compare prices to what people are paying online.
Again, it’s just my personal experience. It might not be helpful to you at all. Getting a good blade, and everything lined up and running smooth will be way more beneficial for the stuff I work on. The fence is annoying, but it’s something that isn’t a need right off the bat.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7208 posts in 2836 days


#2 posted 06-06-2016 09:30 AM

Fighting a bad fence, means a constant battle, and higher risk of poor precision, and even kickback. If you have one of the old steel Emerson fences, I’d spring for a fence and a blade (and alignment). Those are where the biggest improvements will come into play IMO. If the saw has an aluminum XR2424, Alignarip or Xactarip, it’d be less urgent to upgrade the fence. HD sells the Delta T3 for $193…a coupon or military discount can shave another 10%.

If the fence kills the budget, there are some good alternatives to the link belt and new pulleys. The link belts are great, but a good quality cogged rubber v-belt can be just as effective for ~ $10 from plenty of online suppliers. The pulleys might be fine, so I wouldn’t change them unless they’re part of a problem….otherwise you’re assured a $50 expenditure to cure something that might not have been a problem. A better miter gauge is always nice, but if the fence busts the budget you can always build a crosscut sled.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View JIMMIEM's profile

JIMMIEM

39 posts in 302 days


#3 posted 06-06-2016 11:18 AM

I’ve had one of these saws for years. I made the following upgrades. Inline Industries PALS, pulleys, and link belt. Delta T2 fence. Good quality blades are always a good idea. These upgrades have made all the difference in the saw’s performance and accuracy. The only downside to the saw is that it is only 1 HP. If I were in your position I would compare the total upgrade cost to the cost of a new/newer saw. Part of your decision should be what your table saw needs are. FWIW, if the saw needs new arbor bearings I got them done for $40.

View Woodbum's profile

Woodbum

728 posts in 2526 days


#4 posted 06-06-2016 11:52 AM

Welcome to the Lumberjocks club!
I bought a Craftsman with a 1.5 hp motor like you just have new in 1986 for $450. I used it a LOT until 2009 when the motor finally gave out and did not want to pay $210 for a replacement and I replaced it with a Grizzly 1023, which I am sold on. ( My wife even said that I got my money’s worth out of the little Craftsman!) I upgraded my saw a little at a time over the years but never asked the saw to do something that it could not do. It was a great saw, stock, but I added a few things over the years gradually as I could afford them.

a) A link belt and machined pulleys from Inline which almost eliminated any vibration. Not all, but a lot.
b) An Incra 1000SE miter gauge which I am still using on my Griz
c) An Incra TS III fence ( the first edition of the current LSIII) which I still use on my Griz
d) A Forrest Woodworker II thin kerf blade which I also still have and have had sharpened by Forrest a few times. I still use Forrest WWII but in the full kerf version.
e) A dust collection shroud for the bottom which caught some, but with a contractor style saw, you really have a hard time getting a lot.
The #1 upgrade that I made was the fence. It made the most difference. #2 was the Forrest blade.
I took good care of it and eventually bought a new motor from Grizzly a couple of years after I got my 1023 for about $150, and sold the saw for $280, which was a steal for the new owner with the new-in-the-box motor.

Add the upgrades that you want/need and take care of it and you will use this saw for as long as you want. It isn’t the top of the line table saw, nor is it a small plastic job site saw, but you can use it until and if you decide that woodworking is the hobby for you and you want to upgrade to the best saw that you can afford.

A warning though: woodworking is a highly addictive hobby that you can and will enjoy for the rest of your life. Have fun, work safely!

-- "Now I'm just another old guy wearing funny clothes"

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CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#5 posted 06-06-2016 11:58 AM

I did the link belt and not the pulleys and it made a huge difference. I didn’t see a need to replace the pulleys after doing the link belt.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View jonlruss's profile

jonlruss

97 posts in 574 days


#6 posted 06-06-2016 03:20 PM

Welcome to the 113 club. I have my dad’s mid-90’s 113 and I’ve done some of the same upgrades that you are planning. Here’s my take on them.
1) Paddle switch. One of my favorite upgrades. It’s nice not fumbling for the stock switch and just being able to give it a bump with my leg to turn off the saw. It’s much safer.
2) Freud blade. That’s what I use. The Freud’s are good bang for the buck. Not as nice as some more expensive blades, but are much more budget friendly.
3) Incra V27 miter gauge. This one I’m still kind of working on. The slide bar is a tight fit in the 113. On my saw, one side it slides with a little effort, the other takes some actual shoving to move it through. I haven’t really looked into what can be done to improve it. I had thought about a good coating of beeswax maybe, but like I said, haven’t really tried to solve the problem yet. Apart from that, the couple of times I’ve used it I loved the accuracy and ease of changing the angle.
4) Link belt or pulley set. I decided to go the link belt route, and for me it’s enough. It might not pass the nickel test, but I don’t think the vibration is enough to be a problem.
5) New fence. My saw had the XR2424 which is the upgraded fence but I found I still had to fight it to get it to stay aligned, especially at the rear of the fence. I added a Delta T3 and have been a happy camper since. Very easy to set and I know it’s not going to give me anything but a straight cut. That’s not to say that any fence (apart from one that’s warped) can’t give you a straight cut, it’s just how much time and trouble are you willing to spend on the fence.

Of course your experience may be different than mine, and as others have said, upgrade based on your own needs, budget, and time. It won’t be the workhorse that a unisaw might be, but within it’s limitations it’s a very nice saw, especially after the upgrades.

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

330 posts in 1430 days


#7 posted 06-06-2016 05:16 PM

I am like you. I purchased a used, in bad condition 113 Craftsman with cast iron wings. My upgrades include a new high quality v-belt, a Vega Pro 40 fence, Incra miter gauge and a Diablo blade. The first upgrade was the v-belt and saw blade. I purchased the v-belt from a local bearing house.

I actually managed to get the stock Emerson fence to work half way decent. However I wanted to be able to make wider rip cuts, and I also noticed that at times it would drift with making a cut. I found the fence on eBay, it was a freight damaged return, however while the box was destroyed, the fence was in new condition. If you have time there will be deals on eBay or Craigslist. I think I aid $190 for the Vega Pro fence.

The stock miter gauge like most was loose in the miter slot. I discovered that packing tape worked great for eliminating play. I upgraded because I was able to get a great deal on an Incra 1000HD. I now use the old miter gauge on my bandsaw.

If you budget is very limited, I suggest a good quality v-belt and a Diablo saw blade. Then start looking at eBay and Craigslist for your other upgrades.

Harbor Freight has a sack that mounts under the saw to catch most of the saw dust. (I said most not all).

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Craftsman113

2 posts in 183 days


#8 posted 06-07-2016 03:26 AM

Wow! I am so grateful for all of the replies. The saw has a dust collection bag. I found a great video on making a homemade dust collection system. https://youtu.be/lNDc66V1_64

I got the switch, blade, and miter gauge as well as some material to make a crosscut sled.
As Derrick3636 said, for the minute price upgrade, it doesn’t make sense not to do the pulleys also, if I am going to do the link belt.
The motor has a little bit of a “noise” when I spin the shaft. I oiled it, I may take it apart and relube the bearings.

If you would permit me one more question, I have heard many times about “Aligning the pulleys”. What does this entail?

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7208 posts in 2836 days


#9 posted 06-07-2016 09:27 AM

Put a straight edge across the two pulleys to see if they’re in alignment. Adjustments generally involved loosening one pulley and sliding it in our out a little.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Dustin's profile

Dustin

140 posts in 201 days


#10 posted 06-07-2016 12:50 PM

Craftsman,
Is that freud blade comparable to the Diablo ones HD sells? If so (and I can only speak from personal experience), I had some difficulty with significant burn marks in stock I was cutting (even poplar), even with the trailing edge of the fence slightly farther from the blade. I didn’t use a blade stabilizer, though, so I couldn’t say if it made a difference.

-- "Ladies, if your husband says he'll get to it, he'll get to it. No need to remind him about it every 6 months."

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7208 posts in 2836 days


#11 posted 06-07-2016 01:39 PM


Craftsman,
Is that freud blade comparable to the Diablo ones HD sells? If so (and I can only speak from personal experience), I had some difficulty with significant burn marks in stock I was cutting (even poplar), even with the trailing edge of the fence slightly farther from the blade. I didn t use a blade stabilizer, though, so I couldn t say if it made a difference.

- Dustin

Several of the Diablo blades are comparable to the Freud Industrial line if the design parameters are comparable. (LU83/D1050, LU86/D1040, LU88/D1060, LU74/D1080) The Industrial line has more carbide, and far more blades to choose from, so the Diablo line won’t be comparable to blade types they don’t offer.

The burning you described shouldn’t be caused by the brand of blade….it’s likely that there were either too many teeth for the task, or the blade was dirty, dull, or possibly even defective. Which specific blade did you have, how thick was the material, and what type of cut were you making? (all relevant variables to proper blade selection)

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

14547 posts in 2144 days


#12 posted 06-07-2016 01:59 PM

One can buy link belts at Harbour Freight, they sell theirs by the foot in length. Been seeing a lot of good reviews about those belts.

The #113 I used for almost 20yrs, had a dual pulley system on it.

Keep an eye on the trunion, the one I had developed a split in the casting. A donor saw ($25!) provided the replacement trunion, and the motor with the pulleys. Steel wing on both saws = 3 wings to the right, one to the left.

The main reason I no longer have the saw? Not enough space in the Dungeon Shop for it.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3019 posts in 1258 days


#13 posted 06-07-2016 04:36 PM

I won’t add much to the list. I added a Micro Jig Splitter Pro instead of using the stock splitter. I really like it.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

2143 posts in 1633 days


#14 posted 06-07-2016 04:41 PM

The fence is the first upgrade. Then if old belt has taken a set and causing a vibration replace it with new belt of one kind or another. If you are using it quite a bit The stock v belt is fine.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View Dustin's profile

Dustin

140 posts in 201 days


#15 posted 06-07-2016 05:22 PM

Knotscott,
It’s the D1040X at HD, 40 tooth general purpose. The price point seemed the same from my memory, which is why I asked. To answer your other questions, the blade has performed the same since it was new, the material was 3/4”, and the cuts burned on both rip and cross cuts.
I’m still pretty inexperienced, but I don’t think there was a configuration problem here. Contrastingly, I just upgraded to the P410T, and the difference is pretty substantial. Had I known more when I bought the first blade, I would have gritted my teeth and shelled out twice as much cash, had I known it would matter so much. (And thanks for delving in; I always appreciate input from the more seasoned members here.)

-- "Ladies, if your husband says he'll get to it, he'll get to it. No need to remind him about it every 6 months."

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