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Surprising Glue Joint Test Results

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Forum topic by DanielP posted 06-02-2016 06:32 PM 882 views 0 times favorited 27 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DanielP

489 posts in 1359 days


06-02-2016 06:32 PM

An unscientific study for sure, but eye opening nonetheless.

I cut 3 mortices about 1/4” deep and 5/16” length in 3 pieces of Jatoba. Then I cut 3 pieces of hard maple to fit snug in the mortices.

I cut up the mating surfaces with a sharp chisel blade, then then glued one with Titebond 3, one with Hot Hide glue and one with 5 minute Loctite Epoxy. Only clamping force with my fingers was applied to each one. about 10 minutes with the TiteBond, 7 minutes with the Epoxy and 5 minutes with the Hot Hide Glue.

You can see in the picture how I set them up to create a leverage pulling back on an imaginary box lid in the direction it might happen in the event of being dropped etc.

First off I draped a 3 lb can on them and they all held. Then I went with an 81/2 lb can and both the Epoxy and the TiteBond pulled apart immediately. The Hot Hide Glue Held, and after a few minutes gave no sign of letting go.

-- --- Dan


27 replies so far

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Nubsnstubs

826 posts in 1197 days


#1 posted 06-02-2016 07:14 PM

Titebond 3 says 30 minutes minimum to remove from clamps. Set for 24 hours with no stress for maximum bond. I haven’t bothered rereading the label on the other TB’s, because I’m going from years of using their product.

Above is not criticism. It’s good that you are seeking ways and different products to use. You have to remember that the hide glue was invented back at the start of the caveman days. It’s been around a long time, and is still used for some applications. It’s also easy to make if you’re inclined…... ..... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson)

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Jerry

1769 posts in 1115 days


#2 posted 06-02-2016 07:15 PM

Dan,
I think this is interesting for a short time glue setup test. I think you should try the same test but let the glue set up for 24 hours and see in what order the glues fail respectively. You will need a lot more than 8.5 lbs for that test though…

-- There are good ships and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea, but the best ships are friendships and may they always be. http://geraldlhunsucker.com/

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Dustin

144 posts in 208 days


#3 posted 06-02-2016 07:17 PM

Daniel,
I love these kinds of side-by-sides, even without a perfectly repeatable control group. One question: how long did you let each adhesive cure for, and how long does each one recommend for curing before use?

-- "Ladies, if your husband says he'll get to it, he'll get to it. No need to remind him about it every 6 months."

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shipwright

7175 posts in 2265 days


#4 posted 06-02-2016 07:28 PM

Some of us aren’t surprised. You would have had the same result with the hot hide glue if you had held it for only 30 seconds. ...... just one of its many advantages.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fibreglass trees. http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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DanielP

489 posts in 1359 days


#5 posted 06-02-2016 07:35 PM

Thanks for the interest Jerry and Jerry and Dustin. The adhesives cured for 24 hours right on the button. And yes it wasn’t a fair test for the TiteBond 3, but I had an extra piece so I ran it for the heck of it. Had it been clamped “properly” I expect it would have held under the heavier force.

The reason for the “human fingers” clamping is because that is the only viable way to access the joints on the small boxes I make. Like this one I just finished.

-- --- Dan

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DanielP

489 posts in 1359 days


#6 posted 06-02-2016 07:39 PM

Looks like you were right on on the Hide Glue Paul. I will be trying it on some different applications now.

-- --- Dan

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clin

514 posts in 463 days


#7 posted 06-02-2016 07:53 PM

On the failed joints, what actually failed, the glue or the wood?

As I understand it, with Titebond, if glued properly (clamped), the wood fails rather than the glue.

I do understand that the joints were not clamped. And that you were trying to figure out what works best in your application. And I agree that is exactly what matters. Makes no difference if glue A is better than glue B when clamped, if you cannot clamp.

Lot’s of times glues are chosen based on practical aspects of the application. Sometimes you can clamp and wait, sometime you need it glued right now.

Thanks for the data point.

-- Clin

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MrUnix

4245 posts in 1666 days


#8 posted 06-02-2016 08:04 PM

There are numerous glue tests floating around, and most (if not all) show titebond as being the strongest, although not by much compared to some others.

Here is one by Mattias, but excludes hide glue. Titebond III wins.
Glue strength testing (woodgears.ca)

Fine Woodworking magazine also did a comparison, and included both types of hide glue as well as polyurethane. The results were the same, with titebond coming out on top (and hide glue down towards the bottom of the list). The article can be found here: How Strong Is Your Glue?

The glues tested were:

And the results were:

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Aj2

693 posts in 1265 days


#9 posted 06-02-2016 08:27 PM

I don’t think the test is on point with wood working.There is zero long grain for the glues to do what they are designed to do.Its cross grain so that’s a little bit better than eng grain.
I do like to see others doing glue tests.
Some day try making a door with a floating panel.Make the panel out of flat sawn stock.Finish both sides and leave it out side for a year see where it fails.

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DanielP

489 posts in 1359 days


#10 posted 06-02-2016 08:31 PM

Clin, this is the epoxy joint fail. As you can see it is some wood and some adhesive fail.

This is the TiteBond 3 fail. Also some small wood pieces torn out with the glue. I’m thinking that scoring the mating surfaces may also have been a disadvantage for the TiteBond.

Brad, yes I have seen those test results and I wonder if there were any gaps for the T-88 to even fill, or if they may have overclamped it, if they peerformed the tests equally. They don’t mention this.

-- --- Dan

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DanielP

489 posts in 1359 days


#11 posted 06-02-2016 08:42 PM



I don t think the test is on point with wood working.There is zero long grain for the glues to do what they are designed to do.Its cross grain so that s a little bit better than eng grain.
I do like to see others doing glue tests.
Some day try making a door with a floating panel.Make the panel out of flat sawn stock.Finish both sides and leave it out side for a year see where it fails.

- Aj2

Aj2, I think my test is a very pointed test, perhaps for a somewhat singular spot located on the outer fringes of the vast spectrum of woodworking, though.

-- --- Dan

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Aj2

693 posts in 1265 days


#12 posted 06-02-2016 09:03 PM

I see, how about the same size glue area with the same wood only long grain to long grain.
Then we’ll see who’s point is more pointy.:)

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gargey

490 posts in 243 days


#13 posted 06-02-2016 09:06 PM

I tried boiling spaghetti, ravioli, and an egg and all three failed to boil when I tested them after 14 seconds in the water.

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DanielP

489 posts in 1359 days


#14 posted 06-02-2016 09:14 PM



I tried boiling spaghetti, ravioli, and an egg and all three failed to boil when I tested them after 14 seconds in the water.

- gargey

You need more altitude dude!!

-- --- Dan

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doubleDD

5250 posts in 1510 days


#15 posted 06-02-2016 09:18 PM

Good to know for quick applications. I’m usually a titebond guy but there may be a time for something else.

-- Dave, Downers Grove, Il. -------- When you run out of ideas, start building your dreams.

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