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Forum topic by CharlesNeil posted 04-13-2010 04:16 PM 1570 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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2411 posts in 3899 days

04-13-2010 04:16 PM

Guess some of you have figured out, I been finishing for a while , lots of it, and in the last several years I have been very heavily involved in water base finishes , so I have been ask and agreed to write a book , and perhaps a companion DVD , here on LJ’s we just recently had a discussion on spraying Water base , i thought it a good thread, so what I am asking from you is what are your finishing issues, I dont want to write a book that half way covers the subject, if im going to write it , its going to be based on the issues we all face , and thats what I want to know , I dont have to finish in a basement , or my garage , I can spray, so perhaps I am not having to deal with YOUR issues and I want to … I have spraying covered , blotch control ( big time), so tell me how I can help you what you would like to see in a book , thanks all of you.

16 replies so far

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

10548 posts in 3457 days

#1 posted 04-13-2010 04:45 PM

Simple, portable and collapsible spray booth. (DIY type)
HVLP equipment recommendations for the wallet challenged.
Just two things that keep me from spraying often.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View poroskywood's profile


618 posts in 3393 days

#2 posted 04-13-2010 05:08 PM

I spray water-based poly. I have a Husky gravity HVLP from HD.

My biggest challenge seems to be in the consistency of the spraying, sometimes heavy sometimes light I can’t find the right combination of air pressure (25-30lbs. seems to work best) and poly flow.

I’ve tried to thin the water-base poly with water. To much water the surface of the pieces seems to “crinkle up” when drying. I’m not sure of the ratio water to poly. I’m only trying to thin the poly so it flows better out of the gun.

I’m thinking a pressure feed sprayer may be better?

When it does come out right man is it nice!

Also I strain the poly through a filter but it seems like little poly chunks still plug up the nozzle I can’t figure out where they come from? They must form as I’m spraying.

I’m thinking my biggest problem is my set up.

Fan of your work and no BS presintation.

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

View a1Jim's profile


117128 posts in 3606 days

#3 posted 04-13-2010 05:10 PM

Hey Charles
I think this is a great Idea . I know how to spray but don’t have a booth so I have to clean my whole shop to do any spraying . For years I used wiping stains with water base top coats brushed brushed on. This last job I used precat Lacquer and sprayed it on but found it took less clean up and one coat if I brushed it on, So in short I guess if there’s a short cut to spraying with less clean up(probably impossible) I’d like to know what it is.
If you write a book it would be great if you would put foot notes as to were it can be found in say A-Z or Colors DVDs. All your DVDs are great but I sometimes have trouble remembering were I saw it in a particular DVD set. I Look forward to any book you write . I hope lots of LJ members take this opportunity to get answers to there finishing questions.

-- wood crafting & woodworking classes

View CharlesNeil's profile


2411 posts in 3899 days

#4 posted 04-13-2010 05:13 PM

poroskywood read the bottom of this thread we are working on the tip build up issue as we speak

View poroskywood's profile


618 posts in 3393 days

#5 posted 04-13-2010 05:18 PM

I just found it! Thanks so much. I’m all in.

-- There's many a slip betwixt a cup and a lip.--Scott

View davidpettinger's profile


661 posts in 3229 days

#6 posted 04-13-2010 06:40 PM

There are a lot of posts here regarding maple. I think a chapter just on how to handle the various ways to stain, dye, color stabilize and toning maple would probably be very helpful. Also, the various types should be covered, from soft to bird’s eye and everything in between.

Another one is Catalyzed finishes.
Just my 2 cents.

-- Methods are many,Principles are few.Methods change often,Principles never do.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


18293 posts in 3705 days

#7 posted 04-13-2010 10:05 PM

What is the best way to finsh for those who don’t have spray equipment?

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Kent Shepherd's profile

Kent Shepherd

2718 posts in 3315 days

#8 posted 04-13-2010 11:37 PM

Hi Charles. This is not so much a problem, but a question. I have done extensive spraying over the years. I use conventional—as in old fashioned spray guns with an air compressor. Everything from a Binks Model 7 on a quart suction cup, to pressure pots with mostly Binks model 2001 guns. I also use a Graco airless. I have done shutters (a lot) cars, cabinet work, furniture, complete houses, and so on. I read a lot about HVLP, including the other thread you referred to. The question: With my background, why would I want to consider HVLP, and why switch to water based from nitrocellulose lacquer. OK—-that’s 2 questions!

Thanks in advance—-your responses tend to be thorough, sort of like you know what you’re doing.


View Kristoffer's profile


675 posts in 3245 days

#9 posted 04-14-2010 07:02 AM

I’d like to see a little more on ebonizing. I watched you short video on it, but I’m pretty inexperienced when it comes to finishing. Can you do the same thing with colors other than black?

-- Cheers and God Bless

View CharlesNeil's profile


2411 posts in 3899 days

#10 posted 04-14-2010 01:34 PM

Kent, there are several reasons to go to hvlp, you are the main one, far less over spray, better for you the environment , and your not sending all that expensive finish into orbit , as to the water base vs solvent , because in the near future you will not have a lot of choice , already states like California and Florida have such strict VOC regulations that solvent based products are having a tough time getting in ,I know we have all heard this for years, but nowadays water base is perfected and proven to the point it is a safer and more environmentally friendly product, meaning now days the stuff could be mandated because it now works, back in the day it didn’t, Europe is already all water base, but also water base makes better finishes , not to mention , health hazards, reduction in insurance cost , the resins in WB, are man made, acrylics, polys, urethane’s, so durability and performance is better, Nitrocellulose ,while very easy and friendly to use , and has been a staple forever , ( I like it too),is softer and alot less chemical resistance , it’s future is questionable , I wont tell you to give up your Bink’s # 7, I have 4 of them, one of the best spray guns around , but the gravity feds, as so much nicer and so much less over spray, try one you will see,
believe me, old habits and old friends are hard to say good bye to, I will be the first to tell you, it took alot of persuading to get me to try WB , now i love it, the dyes and stains are far better , better color , cleaner crisper , just how I see it… wont tell you to let go Kent, but keep an open mind .. stuff is good, and getting better

View Kent Shepherd's profile

Kent Shepherd

2718 posts in 3315 days

#11 posted 04-14-2010 03:45 PM

Thanks Charles. Very useful information. I am never one to really resist change, but at the same time I don’t randomly flitter around in my methods. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. I was beginning to see the water born finishes take over because of the environment. At least they have developed to the point of being a worth while alternative.

That said, I’m a little concerned about the volume of finish in a gravity fed gun. If I do a larger job, I use my pressure pots which have hoses. I have several 2 qt, and a 2 gallon pot. I like the way you can manuver the gun inside a cabinet. Obviously you can point the gun in any direction—upside down, sideways, etc, which you can’t do with a gravity fed gun—or a suction cup either for that matter. How do you deal with that.

Thanks again. It looks like I may fill your whole book with my questions.


View CharlesNeil's profile


2411 posts in 3899 days

#12 posted 04-14-2010 04:12 PM

Kent, you can use a pressure pot with water base , they do well, you will have to play a little bit with the needles/ nozzles .. to get the spray pattern you want, you will also have to flush the pot /hose and gun at the end of the day, I have Kremlin air assisted airless , which uses a pump system and about 10 Lbs of pressure, very little over spray in either solvent or water base, it is two small hoses , and a gun, I understand the maneuverability it affords , but the average guy isn’t going to have either the pot or the Kremlin, so maneuvering the gun in and around is part of life, but getting the small touch up guns that do fit into tight spaces works well , as well in and around, and inside applications, good paint pad/brush isnt broke, still works, and the Enduro-Var works well in the brush/ pad application , quite well in fact , applying this product by hand works well , just so you folks who dont have the spray world, know , your not excluded from getting killer finishes..

View richgreer's profile


4541 posts in 3103 days

#13 posted 04-15-2010 01:29 AM

I am not a chemist. However, I am curious about how the various finishing projects actually work. Do they penetrate into the wood or do they sit on the surface? How do they interact with each other (e.g. can I put a water based top coat on a sealer that is oil based?)

Please consider an explanation of how the various finishing products work with explanations that a non-chemist can understand.

Another point – please incorporate a discussion of buffing into your book. To me, buffing is just another finishing option. Yet, I have read that you should not buff a item with a particular finish already in place (poly). I have yet to read a book on finishing that comprehensively discusses buffing as a part of the finishing process.

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View Jim Crockett (USN Retired)'s profile

Jim Crockett (USN Retired)

852 posts in 3762 days

#14 posted 04-15-2010 04:40 AM

One thing has bothered me for some time. In many books, articles, etc. you see advice to sand back the finish to fill pores. But I have never seen an explanation of the term “sanding back”. I take it to mean that you sand the finish, using a backer for the sandpaper, until you are back down to bare wood. I have done this a few times and it seems to have worked pretty well but I had to figure out on my own that this was the procedure.

Another thing that would be nice and that I have never seen is a guide for finishing different types of woods. Yes, I know that everyone has their own best finishing routine for each wood but a ‘basic’ finishing guide for that type of wood with any gotcha’s would be beneficial. Such as – how do I finish black ash (for instance) to make it look good?

Good luck on your book. I can’t think of anyone better qualified to write it!


-- A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including his/her life".

View CharlesNeil's profile


2411 posts in 3899 days

#15 posted 04-15-2010 09:32 PM

good stuff , I’m listening and taking notes .. keep it up … one thing I’m learning is nothing is “obvious”, I have also received alot of emails, as well as the post on my own forum, and if there is one single thing I see, is that due to all the information the Internet has afforded, it has to a bigger extent confused , understandable , there is certainly alot of information and opinions .. will do my best to cut thru the bull… how I like it , I’m not a fan of chemistry , I like stuff that works day in and day out , so my goal is to simplify all this ’ stuff’ ( being polite here)

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