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Forum topic by Jim posted 05-19-2016 02:01 PM 390 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jim

105 posts in 1128 days


05-19-2016 02:01 PM

Topic tags/keywords: cabinets cabinet bar bar back weight sag dip help baltic birch plywood plywood hardwood

I’m building 5 cabinets for behind a bar in a restaurant. The largest will be around 33” wide total, and 17” deep, for a counter that is 18” deep in total. There will be quartz on top with a 1/2” subtop

questions:

1) is the 1/2 subtop for the quarts enough?

2) if I use baltic birch plywood, at 18 mm (3/4”) will the shelves need bracing? pictures below

3) If I were to use oak hardwood ply from the home depot would these shelves need support? (I’m guessing thsi plywood will be less strong than baltic birch, is that correct?)

These shelves will be holding glassware.
With a shelf just under 17” deep and 32” or so wide, I’m guessing 18 glasses per shelf, max
This just to give you an idea of weight.

Thanks everyone, pictures for demonstration below.

-- Jim from Rivertown Woodcraft | Grand Rapids, MI | www.YouTube.com/user/RivertownWoodcraft


9 replies so far

View jbay's profile

jbay

816 posts in 365 days


#1 posted 05-19-2016 02:39 PM

I think they will sag over time with either material.
I take it that they are fixed shelves?
Screwed into the back and add a front edge would help. Or add a center stile and screw to the back.

-- My “MO” involves Judging others, playing God, acting as LJs law enforcement, and never admitting any of my ideas could possibly be wrong or anyone else's idea could possibly be correct -- (A1Jim)

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

826 posts in 1196 days


#2 posted 05-19-2016 02:47 PM

If your shelves are fixed, they will probably sag over time if they are not supported at the back and front.

If they are adjustable shelves, then when the sag gets to be obnoxious, remove what is on them, and turn it over and reload. When they sag again, repeat. Do that until the cabinet wears out and sell them another cabinet. .......... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson)

View Jim's profile

Jim

105 posts in 1128 days


#3 posted 05-19-2016 02:47 PM



I think they will sag over time with either material.
I take it that they are fixed shelves?
Screwed into the back and add a front edge would help. Or add a center stile and screw to the back.

- jbay

thanks yeah I’m thinking that too.
Yes, fixed to side with glue and screws, probably not dados, but I could…. and yes, more screws and blue to back stretchers on the other side of the luan / 1/8” back panel

-- Jim from Rivertown Woodcraft | Grand Rapids, MI | www.YouTube.com/user/RivertownWoodcraft

View Jim's profile

Jim

105 posts in 1128 days


#4 posted 05-19-2016 02:48 PM



If your shelves are fixed, they will probably sag over time if they are not supported at the back and front.

If they are adjustable shelves, then when the sag gets to be obnoxious, remove what is on them, and turn it over and reload. When they sag again, repeat. Do that until the cabinet wears out and sell them another cabinet. .......... Jerry (in Tucson)

- Nubsnstubs


That’s actually a great idea.

-- Jim from Rivertown Woodcraft | Grand Rapids, MI | www.YouTube.com/user/RivertownWoodcraft

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

3926 posts in 2709 days


#5 posted 05-19-2016 04:45 PM

We are not talking a whole lot of weight, but because it’s a commercial setting, I would go with the Baltic Birch and center divider and dado the shelves into the sides. You might want to consider putting a laminate on the shelves, in case there is any moisture involved. Glasses are usually stored open end down, so some sort of non-slip mat will be needed. It needs to be removable for cleaning. You can buy phenolic surfaced plywood that can be used for the sides and probably for the shelves as well. http://www.kencraftstore.com/ply3.htm#baltic

View clin's profile

clin

514 posts in 462 days


#6 posted 05-19-2016 09:58 PM

According to the Sagulator:

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/

These shelves will not sag much under load, though over time they probably will.

Another option is to apply an edge piece along the front. This will stiffen the front edge greatly, at the expense of some vertical space between shelves.

Either way, I’m sure a bartender would appreciate having as much room as possible so they don’t have to pay close attention when putting the glasses on the shelves. So what do you have more of, vertical or horizontal space?

-- Clin

View Jim's profile

Jim

105 posts in 1128 days


#7 posted 05-20-2016 11:47 AM



According to the Sagulator:

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/

These shelves will not sag much under load, though over time they probably will.

Another option is to apply an edge piece along the front. This will stiffen the front edge greatly, at the expense of some vertical space between shelves.

Either way, I m sure a bartender would appreciate having as much room as possible so they don t have to pay close attention when putting the glasses on the shelves. So what do you have more of, vertical or horizontal space?

- clin

There needs to be more websites like the sagulator. Amazing.

I also like the idea of the front edge. Especially if I design them to be fixed. I’m already edging these with maple, not really a face frame, but more like 1/4” thick edge banding, so there is opportunity there to make these shelves an inch thick at the front with that maple, and still keep the same look going

-- Jim from Rivertown Woodcraft | Grand Rapids, MI | www.YouTube.com/user/RivertownWoodcraft

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

3926 posts in 2709 days


#8 posted 05-20-2016 02:52 PM

Sorry for raining on your parade. Another thing to consider is to make the cabinets vermin proof. Don’t leave any open spaces under the cabinets or at the back. I have been involved in commercial kitchen design for many years and know what needs to be done for a professional job. There are codes and standards to be met in commercial settings. If a health inspector were to look at wood cabinets in a moist area, he might have issues. If the restaurant owner insists on and approves your design, then he is responsible for any problems that arise later on.

View Jim's profile

Jim

105 posts in 1128 days


#9 posted 05-20-2016 02:55 PM



Another thing to consider is to make the cabinets vermin proof. Don t leave any open spaces under the cabinets or at the back. I have been involved in commercial kitchen design for many years and know what needs to be done for a professional job. There are codes and standards to be met in commercial settings. If a health inspector were to look at wood cabinets in a moist area, he might have issues.

- MrRon

This is something I asked about a while back

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/151226

I’m planning on keeping them 4” off the ground, since it’ll be behind a bar (not kitchen) on plastic leveling feet. Not sure on codes, I keep asking my client to look into it, since this isn’t my everyday sort of project. We’ll see. I’m thinking just plywood and tons of poly.

-- Jim from Rivertown Woodcraft | Grand Rapids, MI | www.YouTube.com/user/RivertownWoodcraft

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