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Upgrade table saw time... PM1000 ?

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Forum topic by willhime posted 05-07-2016 05:13 AM 1049 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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willhime

81 posts in 1004 days


05-07-2016 05:13 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question resource tablesaw

I’m at the point now where if a cut is 100th of an inch off I’m disappointed. Which might be normal, but I didn’t think it would come this far from 2 years ago. After the family heirloom table saw from the 60’s reached my limit, I got a Hitachi C10FL only because of a bundle at an estate sale. Been fidgeting and sweating over it’s limits now for about a year. Now currently, after realizing it’s shortcomings (difficult trunnion adjustment, fence out of line often, hair trigger breaker switch throw, flimsy wings, etc), I have my eyes on several saws, but so far the PM1000 is looking the best. Its retail is $1,999. Another I was looking at was Laguna’s fusion at $1,300. But I want to get basically a full cabinet saw. I’ve been perusing the Grizzly’s, but I’ve never seen or touched one in person. The shop fox’s look and sound pretty sweet as well, but same case with the grizzly, no hands on or eyes on experience as well. If need be, I can run a 220V in my shop but I just haven’t set it up yet despite that I have a dedicated one to an air compressor. So I guess I’m reaching out for more hands on and anecdotal reviews/opinions. Of course the mind games begin playing a factor- ‘if I got a grizzly at $1,000, I could get a mortisor, a better jointer, or a better planer’ blah blah.. you know the feeling. But I’m sick of always tweaking and worrying about the core machine in my shop and want to be done with it.

-- Burn your fire for no witness


13 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4231 posts in 1664 days


#1 posted 05-07-2016 05:29 AM

For $2K, you could get a Unisaw or PM66 and have enough left over for the better jointer, planer and blah, blah… and maybe even more ;-)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

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Rick M

7923 posts in 1845 days


#2 posted 05-07-2016 06:49 AM

I have no doubt you’d be happy with a PM1000, good machines, although I think PM runs higher than they are worth $$. Even though they are all made in China/Taiwan these days; I still have a bias in favor of what I consider real machine companies like Powermatic, SS, Hammer, and Delta over companies that just buy and resell clone designs like Grizzly and Jet. But a lot of guys in the clubs around here own Grizzly and are very happy with them. I’ve never owned a Laguna, but I’ve read so many complaints about their customer service that I never will own one so you might look into that before buying one.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#3 posted 05-07-2016 11:23 AM

Do you have 220v available? Without 220v most of what you’ll be limited to are really the top end hybrid saws, not industrial cabinet saws, even though some manufacturers call them “cabinet saws”. The hybrids with full enclosures look like cabinet saws from a glance, but what’s under the hood is substantially different….even those with cabinet mounted trunnions are much lighter duty than the true industrial cabinet saws. The ABCs of Table Saws

I’m with Rick…..the PM1000 is a nice saw, but $2k for what is essentially a nice Asian made hybrid saw is too much for my tastes. It’s not made the same was as a PM2000, PM66, Unisaw, G0690, G1023RL, Jet Xacta, Laguna Platinum, etc. Also to get to the gnat’s eyelash of accuracy, the Incra fence is really the way to go. The better Biese style fences are easy to use and are very good, but won’t give the level of repeatability that it sounds like you’re looking for.

FWIW, the Laguna Fusion is nearly the same under the hood as the Jet Proshop, but the Jet has a better fence IMO. The Fusion fence rail is a two piece aluminum setup, which is not ideal for accuracy….it’s also about identical to the Baileigh hybrid. I’d go with the Proshop over the Fusion or Baleigh just for the fence upgrade, but their CS is well known too.

The innerds of most of the better 120v hybrids with cabinet mounted trunnions will look something like this (Proshop, Fusion, PM1000, G0771):

.
.

Now look at a true industrial cabinet saw:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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Rollie

6 posts in 227 days


#4 posted 05-07-2016 12:23 PM

Don’t over look the used industrial market. For $1250 I bought a Tannewitz U w/ 1hp SMC feeder and a 10hp RPC. With the RPC in hand, the world of 3 phase is now open to me. This quality of machinery will still be operating accurately when the stuff being produced today will be a 3rd iteration chinese car.

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willhime

81 posts in 1004 days


#5 posted 05-08-2016 07:56 PM

I wouldn’t have predicted being talked out of the PM1000 so I’m glad I asked first. Found a used PM66 on a used industrial power tool site for $1,950. From what I’ve read on reviews, Grizzly owners don’t complain much, but I’m still dissapointed there’s no ‘hands on’ trials I can really take part in other than scouring and scouring for user reviews on here, sawmill creek, etc. It’s kind of frustrating with such an important and expensive purchase, because when buying a used car, you don’t just pay 2 or 3K and ‘hope it runs ok and has a good feel’. I live in Austin, and on craigslist, there’s a Delta 230V for $1450, and a Saw Stop 3hp $2,600. The Delta looks pretty old though, and I’m hesitant on Saw Stops not only because of the price, but user complaints about screwing up a rought cut lumber sometimes and being out $130 sensory assembly after being ‘falsely’ triggered. I would love to get the incra fence, but it seems like slappin that on a Hitachi Contractor would be the same as doing an engine rebuild on a 94’ Toyota Carolla or something. Unless I’m wrong about that, which is very likely.

-- Burn your fire for no witness

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retfr8flyr

327 posts in 1134 days


#6 posted 05-08-2016 08:13 PM

I also love the Incra fence and ended up spending more then I planed, when I got my new saw. I decided it’s a very long term purchase and I may as well get what I wanted. I got the Jet Deluxe Xacta saw and added the Incra fence system to it. I have been extremely happy with it since. I know your initial cost will be higher but when you factor it over the 10 years you will most likely have the saw, it doesn’t amount to much increase per year, to have what you want. Just my 2¢.

-- Earl

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4231 posts in 1664 days


#7 posted 05-08-2016 09:13 PM

The PM66 had better be in pristine condition and have lots of goodies for that price! The Unisaw is a ‘94 model with a Unifence, which is quite desirable. Hardly old as they were introduced in the late 30’s and remained virtually unchanged since – and for Unisaws, PM66’s, 12/14’s, PM72’s etc… older is typically better. It also looks remarkably complete (ie: has the stuff that usually goes missing – blade guard, miter gauge, manual in it’s little pouch on the side, motor cover, etc…), and has a mobile base and router table extension which is a plus. It appears that the owner has taken very good care of it. Not sure about how good that dust collector, but it’s thrown in as well along with some extra goodies that you would typically have to go out and buy yourself. I’d at least go look at it as it’s a much better machine than anything you would find new.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7216 posts in 2841 days


#8 posted 05-08-2016 10:57 PM

That Delta could be worth a look and a reasonable offer, but $1450 isn’t awful if it includes all the extras mentioned. If the Unifence meets your needs, great…but if not, you could always sell it and put the proceeds towards an Incra. That’d be a heck of a setup.

For $600 this one could be worth overcoming the 3-phase challenges.
http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/tls/5534158861.html

Jet Xacta – $800
http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/tls/5562871096.html

Asking price is really high IMO, but provides a chance to see a G0690/G0691.
http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/hvo/5545485718.html

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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Woodchuck2010

513 posts in 323 days


#9 posted 05-09-2016 12:52 AM

Loving my PM1000. Very accurate and very well made.

-- Chuck, Michigan,

View chiseler's profile

chiseler

121 posts in 354 days


#10 posted 05-11-2016 02:54 AM

You can’t go wrong with a used Unisaw preferably 3HP,and still have $ left for other toys.
I see them all the time on CL

-- Scott.Triangle,NY Becareful and don't forget...They cut meat too!

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2198 posts in 946 days


#11 posted 05-11-2016 12:13 PM


I m at the point now where if a cut is 100th of an inch off I m disappointed.

1/100” off in what length? Anything but a POJ can be dialed. The new (overpriced, IMO) TS you are considering will not be a solution to your issue to many other things have to be dialed in to perfect like miter gauges, xcut sleds, etc.

If you are really serious about the .01”, I suggest relaxing just a bit and come at your ww’ing with a different approach to concerning precision.

Until then, I submit there will be no joy in ww’ingville for you even when big yellow takes center stage.

:)

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Joe Andrews's profile

Joe Andrews

65 posts in 1464 days


#12 posted 05-11-2016 12:45 PM

Grizzly used to have a user referral program or something like that. You call them and tell them where you are located and they will give you the names of people in your area that have the equipment you are interested in. When I was looking to get a table saw a few years ago, they gave me the name of a local user and I was able to visit his shop and see the saw up close. You may want to contact them and see if they still do this.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4456 posts in 3426 days


#13 posted 05-11-2016 02:13 PM

Go for the Grizz. Though I don’t have a cabinet saw, my Grizz G0444Z contractor saw has been dead nuts a great saw for all my needs, and customer/parts service from them is second to none.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

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