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Replacement arbor for the Jet 250CS Supersaw

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Forum topic by bluekingfisher posted 1603 days ago 2347 views 0 times favorited 25 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


1603 days ago

Hi Folks,

I posted this query yesterday, unfortunately being brand new to the site I posted it on the wrong page and have therefore been advised to re-post on the most relevant forum page. So here’s hoping I have found the correct page this time.

Hello all,

I’m new to the forum but was wondering if anyone could provide me with some information regards changing the arbor on my Jet 250CS Supersaw tablesaw to allow me to use a dado blade.

I live in the UK and my tablesaw has a shortened arbor, meaning there is not enough room to install a dado cutter , instead the arbor has been machined to allow the blade to fit and no more. while the arbor nut thread is machined to approx 12mm. This is because the Health & Safey exec in the UK do not permit the use of dado blades because the guard has to be removed to operate the dado. However, this I understand only applies to saws for commercial use and not hobby use as is my intent.

The arbor diameter is 30mm (at the blade end) which of course creates a significant difference to the 1 1/4” diameters I understand are currently in use in the US.

I am not sure if my saw model is exclusive to the UK but I have conducted a trawl of the internet and it would appear that your side of the pond has a far greater array of cabinet saws under the Jet brand although I could not find the exact same saw I have.

So to my question, can anyone direct me to a source who may be able to supply advise/exchange/replace arbors or provide information on the feasibility of undertaking this project. I suppose I would need to establish the exact dimensions of the blade arbor and the dims of the bearings to take this further but if any of you guys can assist I would be very grateful.

Many thanks

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan


25 replies so far

View ardbeg's profile

ardbeg

101 posts in 1652 days


#1 posted 1603 days ago

Welcome to LJ. This is a great place with lots of helpful folks. This, on the other hand, is probably of very little help but it might help you find what you are looking for. I think you have your arbor diameters backward. Standard US saws have a 5/8ths arbor and yours is closer to 1 and 3/16ths. The other option is that Forrest makes a 30mm Dado set. http://www.forrestblades.com/dado.htm You could just get a longer replacement arbor instead of trying to downsize it.

Nice saw and good luck. It is interesting to me that with all the talk of legislating safety here in the US that Dados are illegal in the UK—something else for us to think about!

-- You may delay, but time will not. --Ben Franklin

View alanealane's profile

alanealane

365 posts in 2514 days


#2 posted 1603 days ago

David, this is a tough one…
Try to find a machinist who would be willing to make a new arbor for you. This can be expensive, unless you have a friend who does this or you can make it yourself. I don’t know the exact design of your arbor (whether the bearings are the simple press-on style, or they are built into the arbor shaft), but you might need to take the arbor out of the saw, and carry it with you when meeting with the machinist, so that a better idea of the cost can be determined. If the arbor is a simple design, a new shaft should be able to be built relatively quickly with the amount of shaft length you need for a dado blade set.

As for the 30mm diameter of the arbor, I don’t know if dado blade sets are available with this bore size. I’m used to seeing 5/8 bores on saw blades here ‘across the pond’. I’m sure the bigger saws have an arbor 1” or larger in diameter, but how available are dado blade sets with this bore? I’ve heard of people having their saw blades drilled for a larger arbor size, but it sounds like a hassle to me!!

IF you decide to have a new shaft made for your saw, investigate the feasibility of using a 5/8” diameter, especially for non-commercial use. This should be more then adequate for your needs.

Otherwise, you may have to try putting a box-joint blade set on your TS and cutting dadoes in multiple passes (I don’t know if this will fit on your saw either…).

Some people use a dado blade in a Radial Arm Saw, but I don’t know if you have one, or if they’re even available in Europe with the arbor length needed for a dado blade set.

Also, look into making dadoes with a router. Especially on larger pieces of wood, this method is far easier than hauling the board onto a table saw and pushing it through. Just make sure you have a good straight-edge, such as the clamp-n-tool guide (or similar tool) or a guide track from the DeWalt or Festool track saws (which have the drawback of not having the ability to be clamped in place).

-- Lane Custom Guitars and Basses

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richgreer

4522 posts in 1699 days


#3 posted 1602 days ago

I’ve not seen your saw but my guess is that you can safely get a very narrow dado set onto your arbor, perhaps just the front and back blade with no cutters in the middle. If you can do this, you can do virtually anything you want to do with a dado. It will just take more passes.

If you have a kerfmaker you can be very precise about making the cut at each end of the area you want to cut out. Then you can quickly clean up the middle with multiple passes.

If you are not familiar with a kerfmaker, just search for them on this site. Most woodworkers make their own and I am sure you can find at least a dozen examples on this site. You can also buy one from Bridge City Tools but why buy something you can make?

-- Rich, Cedar Rapids, IA - I'm a woodworker. I don't create beauty, I reveal it.

View bluekingfisher's profile

bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


#4 posted 1602 days ago

Thanks a lot fellas, lots to think about, I’ll have to have a closer look at the arbor and bearing set up. I should have taken the time to do this before I posted my query. I bought the saw a few weeks ago and because I’m about to build a new workshop most of my tools are under wraps in my garage, so once my workshop is up and running I may have to pester you again for your thoughts. If I can workout how to post photos on the forum I’ll do that too, as picture paints a thousand words as they say.

My old saw allowed me to install a full dado set, however as mentioned the H&S people have for some time now in the UK insisted all new saws are designed so not to permit the use of a dado cutter. Fair point I suppose but I found the dado a very useful means of cutting my rebates and housing joints.

I tried to up load an image of my saw but seems I have been unsuccessful, anyway thanks again for your input chaps.

Jet 250cs supersaw:\

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

View lilredweldingrod's profile

lilredweldingrod

2495 posts in 1731 days


#5 posted 1351 days ago

David, even though I have an 8 inch dado set, I prefer to do my dado cuts with a router and dado jig. I get a perfect fit almost every time. I also feel more at ease with a router than the dado stack. Even when watching someone else use the dado blades, I feel uncomfortable.
There are several jigs on here and in many of the WW magazines. Plus it is a lot cheaper money wise.
Good luck, Rand

View bluekingfisher's profile

bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


#6 posted 1351 days ago

Thanks Rand point taken, exposing oneself to an unguarded blade at the best of time is always scary stuff.

However I have sourced and received a replacement arbor from a Jet dealership in WI. Once I get soem time I’ll look at fitting it.

Thanks for posting.

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

View bluekingfisher's profile

bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


#7 posted 1308 days ago

To follow on from my initial thread about changng the arbor on my table saw to allow me to use a stack dado cutter i thought I would let you know, operation successfully completed. Not without frustrations and banging of a few knuckles knuckles I may add but done all the same. So, I thought I would post a couple of photos to show the difference in the two arbors.
Here in the UK the saw is identified as the Jet 250CS super saw, as far as I am aware the same saw in the US, with the exception of the blade guard and arbor are essentially the same saw. It is identified as the 250 JWS (I think) in the states. Hopefully from the pictures you can see the differences. The arbor fitted is the new one ( I forgot to take a pic of the arbor before I took it out) capable of accepting the dado cutter while the arbor on top of the table is the original which came with the saw, machined so not to take the dado head. If you look closely the arbor has three milled steps. First the threaded step to accept the lock nut, then a clipped round centre section to hold the outside flange cap (note the shape of the hole in the old flange cap) then the last of the three is a 3mm wide x 30mm step, hard against the inside flange plate to accept the blade. There was just no way to fit a dado to this set up.

I just need to make some insert plates for the varying dado widths and I’m ready to DADO!

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

View mkcl's profile

mkcl

7 posts in 709 days


#8 posted 709 days ago

Hi guys,

I know I’m reviving a rather old thread, but I’m trying to do the exact same thing to my SuperSaw. Unfortunately, I’m a bit stuck. Two questions:
1) How do you remove the old arbor? I’ve taken off the arbor pulley and both hex nuts, but the arbor doesn’t want to slide out. What else do I need to take off? (Or is it just stuck, and in need of some “persuasion”? I was loathe to hit it, for fear of ruining the bearings or cracking the arbor bracket.)
2) Did you fit an extra wave washer? The parts diagram for US models of the SuperSaw show an extra wave washer that isn’t present in the Euro models. It seems to sit between the bearing that’s closer to the blade, and the arbor bracket that supports that bearing. Any idea what that washer is supposed to do? It seems a bit weird that the other bearing doesn’t need this washer – I’d have thought they’d use the same arrangement for both arbor bearings, but the US models only have the wave washer on the bearing closer to the blade.

Michael.

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bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


#9 posted 707 days ago

Micheal,

Its been a couple of years since I replaced mine so I’ll try to answer your questions.

Firstly don’t use “persuasion” the arbor is a friction fit, you will have to use a bearing puller to pull it out ( I Bought mine in a set of three for about £15, the set comprises a small medium and large puller, auto stores sell them). Once you have the arbor out replacement is done using a clamp, to apply even pressure when pusing it back in.

The wave washer is just a wafer then shim. the euro model is the same saw but tit has a modified arbor assembly it to include an arbor which couldn’t accept a dado head (euro safety laws). Because of the difference in the arbor (see my pics above) the washer is required to make up the difference in the dimensions.

I would also buy some new cir clips, I went through several thrying to get it all back together. Don’t use the old ones as they go our od shape easily. It’s a finicky job, but once done you could do it in half the time if you had to do it again, if you know what I mean.

I no longer have this saw now as I bought a beefier one, but if you have any more questions and I’ll try to answer them as best I can from memory.

Good luck.

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

View mkcl's profile

mkcl

7 posts in 709 days


#10 posted 707 days ago

Hi David,

Thanks for the info!

Were you able to liberate the arbor from the arbor bracket before needing to use the bearing puller? Or were you able to get the jaws of the puller around the bearing while it was still nestled in the bracket? My main issue is the bearing on the side of the pulley … once I can get that off, I can get the arbor out, and the other bearing should be much easier to remove.

Also, do I need to loosen the fixed plate (i.e. the part in the top right of your last two pictures) to slide the arbor free? It doesn’t seem to be in the way … as far as I can tell, it just screws onto the arbor bracket to fill some extra space.

Thanks again.

Michael.

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bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


#11 posted 707 days ago

Hi Michael, If memory serves, you will have to remove the pulley from the bracket/trunion with the puller. once you have the large lock nut removed from the pulley side of the bearing ( I assume you have done this?) I clamped the gear puller to the pulley side of the trunion and pushed it out i.e. from right to left as you look at the photographs. This will leave the pulley bearing in the housing and the bearing at the saw blade end will be attached to the arbour just behind the flange plate. Again, from memory the bearing at the pulley end will be a friction fit in the housing, therefore a tap with a wooden drift will dislodge it from the housing.

You will need to remove the bearing from the saw blade end with the puller too but this should be a lot easier now that the arbour is free from the trunion. Of course you won’t need to do this if you have a new replacement bearing. I reused the old bearings because I’m tight.

The fixed plate, I assume you mean the one on the top right with the two screw holes in it? If that’s the case, you don’t require this part if you are changing from the Euro style to the US version. That plate is a retrospective part to cover the space taken up by the larger US version arbor. I think you need to remove it to get the arbor out any way but you certainly don’t need it for the US dado compatible arbour.

Just so I have it right, you have the Euro version and you want to change to the US arbour?

I thought I had more pics on my photobucket but what I have is what you see I’m afraid.

It is a fiddly job but a gear puller is a definate requirement, as I mentioned, rather than buy a gear puller on spec, I bought a set of three (ebay) very cheap, they are just three claws on a pivot joint with a hardened bolt which you turn with a spanner to force out the arbour (sorry if you already know all this)

Any probs, get back and if you figure it out please let me know and pop a couple of pics on the forum.

Best of luck mate

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

View mkcl's profile

mkcl

7 posts in 709 days


#12 posted 703 days ago

Hi David,

Thanks again for your help – if not for your assistance, I’d probably still be musing about how to get my arbor out. I’m happy to report that I’ve successfully finished the job, and it’s not that hard once you know how!

The process that I followed was a bit different to yours, so in case anyone else wants to do the same mod, I’ll run through what I did:

  • Obtain the requisite parts. I ordered them over the phone from Walter Meier in the US (you can reach their customer service department on +18002746848). The mandatory parts are:
    200303 …..................Arbor
    200102 …..................Flange
    991459 …..................Nut ACM 8/5” x 12
    (I also ordered the wave washer that I mentioned earlier in the thread. However, during the installation process, I compared the US and Euro arbors and concluded that I didn’t need it.) It might also be worth buying new bearings and/or circlips, if you’re worried you’ll damage the existing ones.
  • Check that the nut fits onto the new arbor properly. I found that my arbor had some burrs due to poor machining, so I put the arbor into my drill press and sanded the burrs off.
  • It’s possible to gain sufficient access for this job via the table insert hole and back panel. This allowed me to leave the saw table and arbor bracket in situ.
  • Remove the belt that connects the motor to the arbor. Be sure to make sure the belt tensioning spring doesn’t slam the motor into the enclosure when you remove the belt. Also, it’s important to lift the motor by hand whenever changing the angle of the arbor bracket later on, otherwise the motor will gouge the inside of your saw.
  • To make the next steps easier, lower the arbor bracket and tilt it to 45 degrees.
  • Loosen the two bolts on the pulley using an allen key. Remote the pulley and alignment key (which is friction fitted, but which was a bit hard to remove on my saw).
  • Remove the two nuts. Note that these have the opposite thread to normal! I was initially worried that the inner nut would be hard to remove (because it’s recessed within the arbor bracket and unreachable with a spanner), but it was actually no problem.
  • I next loosened the fixed plate (round plate with two screw holes). To do this, I raised the arbor bracket to full height and accessed the bolts from the table insert hole. However, if I was doing this again, I’d probably leave the fixed plate in place for now, and only remove it once the arbor is out. The arbor can easily slide out with the fixed plate in place, although the fixed plate will obstruct the blade-side bearing, should that want to come out as well.
  • To improve access and visibility, I removed the spindle extend plate (the metal plate that the riving knife attaches to). However, I’m not sure if this step is strictly necessary.
  • The next part is where I got stuck – I couldn’t get the arbor to budge. I thought about using a gear puller, but the problem is that it would put a lot of lateral load on the bearing, because the puller would be grasping the arbor bracket, not the inner ring of the bearing (which is where the force should ideally be applied). After talking to a mechanical engineer at work, I rigged up a dodgy DIY blow torch to heat the bearing support arms of the arbor bracket. This made it pretty easy to slide the arbor out. (The bracket doesn’t need to get super-hot for this to work. I just used my BBQ gas bottle for this – i.e. an LPG-air torch.)
  • Both my bearings stayed in the arbor bracket, but the bearing on the blade side had moved slightly, so I pushed it back into its original position.
  • After re-heating the arbor bracket, I slid the new arbor in. I made sure that I put the circlip on while the pulley end of the arbor was between the two bearings. This way, I could slip the circlip over the end of the arbor, instead of having to open it wide enough to slip over the main shank of the arbor. By doing this, I never really felt that I was in any particular danger of mangling the circlip, as it only needed to be bent by about 1-2mm to make it loose enough.
  • The rest of the process was basically the reverse of the disassembly process.

I did a test cut with a brand new Woodworker II blade, and it came out smooth-as. So, overall, even though the process took longer than I thought it would, I’m a happy camper.

Michael.

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bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


#13 posted 702 days ago

Hi Michael – I’m very pleased to hear you got the job done. I’m no engineer or technichan so i was a little concerned I was not able to explain myself properly in text the way to remove the arbor, particularly as it was a couple of years ago. My process was stand and stare for a few moments, scratch head, reach for a tool, give it a go and see what came of it.

I’m sure you’ll agree, that having now done it you could do the same job in a fraction of the time?

Well done for taking the time to post your method of work. I have seen several queries regards removing an arbor shaft and while they may not all be the same model as ours, it may hopefully give someone else the confidence to do the job on their own. Not too difficult when you know how.

Best of luck.

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

View mkcl's profile

mkcl

7 posts in 709 days


#14 posted 702 days ago

Hi David,

I was able to understand your instructions without any difficulty. Even though I ended up using a slightly different technique, your help was invaluable because you reassured me that I wasn’t doing something totally stupid, like forgetting to unscrew or remove an important part.

Now that I know how to do the job, I reckon I could do it in half or maybe even a third of the time. That’s one of the reasons I posted my instructions – from searching other forums, I know other people have completed this mod in the past, but no one ever bothers to post info once they’re finished. Hopefully other people can benefit from our experience and save themselves some time and hassle.
:)

Michael.

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bluekingfisher

1008 posts in 1604 days


#15 posted 702 days ago

Hi Michael, I quite agree, maybe I should have done so myself but with the greatest of intensions I failed you all lol. Just never got around to it.

Ironically, I was working with the saw yesterday afternoon and thought I heard a little knocking as the saw shut off. I checked the arbor fpr play but it is tight?? I am hoping the bearing hasn’t gone, although the saw is only about 18 months old. It is a Laguna, no doubt made in the PRC so perhaps the bearings may not be what they should be. I’ll have to keep my eye, or at least ear on it.

I’m sure if the bearing has gone an equivalent British made bearing (assuming we still make such things) would be a wiser option as a replacement.

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

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