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I'm Stumped - Weird Table Saw Behavior

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Forum topic by Ardubya posted 04-26-2016 02:01 PM 1183 views 0 times favorited 30 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ardubya

21 posts in 612 days


04-26-2016 02:01 PM

Topic tags/keywords: table saw ripping rip cross cut measurement adjustment

I’m a novice woodworker getting serious about my hobby. I’ve experienced something that I need expert opinions to figure out. I have used three different table saws over the years – a crappy intro-level Delta, a much nicer portable Craftsman contractor saw, and now a restored Craftsman 113 (best saw I’ve used). I’ve experienced an issue that I can’t seem to find the cause of. Forgive my lack of vernacular – I don’t know technical terms so I will describe this as best I can.

When a piece is fed through the saw, just when the piece is exiting the cut, it seems that the blade takes off just a little extra from the corner that touches the saw table surface. The end result is a very slight bevel. I have measured and adjusted over and over, using several techniques I’ve seen online. The blade is square to the table, the fence is square to the table – everything should be fine. I have varied my feed technique and trials using large pieces fed by hand and small pieces fed with a GRR-Ripper pushblock. It still happens.

My saw does not have a riving knife but I have recently purchased the MJ Splitter system and will give that a try soon.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it some mysterious physics phenomenon? I’m at a total loss.


30 replies so far

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

832 posts in 690 days


#1 posted 04-26-2016 02:34 PM

Perhaps your fence is not truly straight and flat? A small bump in the fence towards the back could ‘kick’ out the board when the end reached the bump.

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

826 posts in 1198 days


#2 posted 04-26-2016 02:38 PM

Are you getting any burn marks or burnishing before exiting the cut?
Are you using carbide?
How thick is the blade?
How new is the blade?
Is the blade flat?
Have you checked the flanges on the arbor to verify they are the same diameter and setting flat on the blade when tightened? Take the blade out, and put the outer flange back onto the arbor, tighten it like you would do normally, and check for a gap.
Is your piece you’re cutting straight or bowed when exiting?............... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson)

View JayT's profile

JayT

4788 posts in 1679 days


#3 posted 04-26-2016 02:40 PM

My best guess is that it is related to technique.

Do you have an outfeed table of some kind to push the pieces onto or are they tipping up and going to the floor as they exit? If the latter, then it might be that corner of the workpiece rubbing the blade just a bit as it tips up and out. As the piece exits the cut, there just isn’t much support from the fence and it is very easy for leverage to take over and move the board just a bit. I used to have a similar problem on the table saw and that was the cause.

If you don’t have one, try adding an outfeed support and see if that helps.

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

View ScottM's profile

ScottM

347 posts in 1614 days


#4 posted 04-26-2016 02:40 PM

You’re talking about “extra” off of the left back corner; the corner on the operator side that last touches the blade?

My Ridgid R4510 does the same thing. I’ve also been through everything many times and have yet to find a reason for it so I’m also curious what others think on this one.

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Ardubya

21 posts in 612 days


#5 posted 04-26-2016 02:42 PM

Splintergroup – that’s a good thought and I will double check. I’m using a really nice EZ Square fence system from Peachtree Woodworking. Thing is, I have experienced this same phenomenon on the two other saws I have used as well.

After I measured and aligned everything, my first thought was that maybe it was something I was doing when feeding the board through. But I have even experimented with that – hand feed vs push block feed, feed rate, board size, nothing seems to get a different result.

View Ardubya's profile

Ardubya

21 posts in 612 days


#6 posted 04-26-2016 02:48 PM

Jerry (In Tucson) – good questions.

Using an almost brand new Diablo thin kerf 40 tooth general purpose blade. Generally the wood I’m feeding is square. Have tried plywood (medium grade from big box store), S4S from big box, hardwoods (maple, walnut, cherry) from local hardwoods supplier. Thickness is half inch to 1 inch, but most is 3/4 inch.

Blade is flat, no issues with arbor or mounting. Have done very fine adjusting using techniques viewed on YouTube (reputable sources).

All this said, the thing is that I have experienced this not only on my current higher grade saw but the other two stock saws I have used.

View Ardubya's profile

Ardubya

21 posts in 612 days


#7 posted 04-26-2016 02:50 PM

ScottM – you are correct. When the wood is facing down, it’s the corner on the blade side, the last surface to touch the blade as it exits.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1114 posts in 2412 days


#8 posted 04-26-2016 03:06 PM

1) Are you using good blades? If you have blades that wobble under load, being in the wood can stabilize them, somewhat, but when you get to the end it may wobble a little before straightening.

2) Are you using good push shoes, rather than just sticks. Shoes allow you to hold the wood down AND against the fence far better than [the far less safe] push sticks.

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

4859 posts in 2281 days


#9 posted 04-26-2016 03:22 PM

If only the end of the board is out of square, I wouldn’t suspect blade or fence issues.
Usually it is due to the board dropping down as it becomes unsupported on the outfeed side. At the same time, you are referencing less and less of the fence against your workpiece, so there is a tendency for the board to move sideways as well. If you don’t use an outfeed table, try adding one. If you already use an outfeed table, try adjusting it level with the TS surface. I use adjustable furniture leveling feet on my outfeed table to set it just where it needs to be.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7225 posts in 2843 days


#10 posted 04-26-2016 03:23 PM

Basic question – has the wood been flattened and straightened to provide a flat reference face to put against the table and a square straight reference edge to put against the fence?

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

2150 posts in 1640 days


#11 posted 04-26-2016 03:27 PM

The weak point on that saw is the fence. If that is the factory fence is is moving out of square. I finally replace the fence on my 113 with a T2. I could never get the factory fence to stay square. I would measure to the miter slot front and rear, tighten down, remeasure and after a cut it would be out one way or the other. The new fence made a new saw out of it. The T2 would stay square. I would measure both end of the fence to the miter slot and see if it is staying square.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View Ardubya's profile

Ardubya

21 posts in 612 days


#12 posted 04-26-2016 04:16 PM

Kelly – yes, using good blades and GRR-Rippers
Pintodeluxe – I have a semi-outfeed table in that I have built a contiguous surface on the sides and back of the saw
Knotscott – some of the wood I have experimented with has been professionally flattened and squared (by the hardwood vendor) – same result
Johnstoneb – I’m using a nice aftermarket fence – EZ Square – from Peachtree

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

832 posts in 690 days


#13 posted 04-26-2016 04:31 PM



Splintergroup – that s a good thought and I will double check. I m using a really nice EZ Square fence system from Peachtree Woodworking. Thing is, I have experienced this same phenomenon on the two other saws I have used as well.

- Ardubya

Ahh, ok. This does tend to put the finger on technique versus any mechanical issues.
Do you experience the same problem(s) if you move the fence to the other side of the blade and make a cut?

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1610 posts in 3338 days


#14 posted 04-26-2016 05:17 PM

ok just a suggestion , Many people when they push wood thru a table saw, tend to direct the pressure more to ward the blade than the fence, when you do that as the material exits the blade it tends to try to scoot toward the blade, this is more prevalent when using a push stick of sorts.

Its like using a jointer where you need to direct the downward pressure more so on the out feed table than the in feed, once the material has engaged the out feed table

Try directing your pressure toward the back of the fence as an aim point .

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7935 posts in 1848 days


#15 posted 04-26-2016 07:22 PM

Charles Neil nailed it. What you are experiencing is normal. An outfeed table helps me so the wood isn’t bouncing around.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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