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Forum topic by Jonathan posted 03-24-2010 07:40 PM 1235 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jonathan

2605 posts in 1747 days


03-24-2010 07:40 PM

So I’ve spent about 2-hours down in the basement and I’m starting to get frustrated.

I’m attempting to get my TS all setup.

Right now, my frustration lies in attempting to get the blade lined-up with the miter gauge slot.

I’ve got a contractor type Powermatic 64a, and have equipped it with a Forrest Woodworker II.

I undid the belt and have loosened the trunnion bolts. I loosened 3 of the 4 bolts and then just barely loosened the 4th bolt as a pivot point, as I couldn’t get the trunnions to move at all leaving it tightened.

I’ve gotten it to about 1/1000th of an inch using the method of a sliding square and automotive feeler gauge using the same tooth of the blade at the rear, then rotating that same tooth to the front.

I’ve done this twice now and then when I go to tighten it, everything gets thrown off by several 1/1000ths. I’m tightening each bolt a little at a time and this continues to happen. It’s almost like there’s a memory or something? I’d like to have it less than 3/1000ths, but it keeps going to about 5/1000ths by the time I tighten things. I have not yet tightened all 4-bolts down, so maybe by the time I do that, it’ll be back to where I had it?

Do I need to try and use a different bolt as the pivot point? Maybe I literally need to only go a 1/4 of a turn/bolt?

I got frustrated enough that I needed to take a break so I came up and turned the computer on and am posting this now as a bit of a “time out” so I don’t start throwing things!

Any advice is welcome.

I’d like to rectify this situation so I can actually start using the saw. I’ve used it for a couple of cuts, but I really want to get everything lined-up so I can start on some more serious projects and not worry about anything being out of whack.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."


15 replies so far

View JJohnston's profile

JJohnston

1586 posts in 1988 days


#1 posted 03-24-2010 07:55 PM

Try tightening one bolt at a time and see if it’s just one causing the movement. If it is, use that one as your pivot and tighten it last.

Or, take it 5 thousandths past square so it arrives at zero as it gets tight. I have to do this with my jointer knives, which rise as I tighten the gib bolts. It won’t take you long to figure out how much you have to overshoot.

-- "Sometimes even now, when I'm feeling lonely and beat, I drift back in time, and I find my feet...Down on Main Street." - Bob Seger

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15706 posts in 2915 days


#2 posted 03-24-2010 08:02 PM

I like JJohnston’s 2nd method above. If it’s moving and extra .004 when you tighten everything, just start .004 away to begin with, and see if things end up where they are supposed to be when you tighten.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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Jonathan

2605 posts in 1747 days


#3 posted 03-24-2010 08:04 PM

Thank you for the advice.

I think I’ll try taking it 5/1000ths past. That seems like it’ll be the easiest at this point since I’ve tried tightening it in various combinations. If that still doesn’t work, then I’ll try using various bolts as the pivot point.

I’ll post back when I figure out what worked or didn’t work on these two suggestions.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

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Jonathan

2605 posts in 1747 days


#4 posted 03-24-2010 08:05 PM

Charlie, didn’t see your response until after I posted, so I’ll definitely go that route first.

I do have to go to work now, so won’t be able to attempt anything until I get home.

Thanks again for the prompt response guys. I’m sure one of these two methods will do the trick.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

View jpc's profile

jpc

139 posts in 1877 days


#5 posted 03-24-2010 08:30 PM

did you try to clamping some blocks holding it in the position you want then tighten each bolt a little at a time,

View patron's profile

patron

13110 posts in 2038 days


#6 posted 03-24-2010 08:47 PM

maybe turn the washers over too ,
they may be slightly ’ dimpled ’ ,
and have the ’ memory ’ in that .

-- david - only thru kindness can this world be whole . If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure. Dan Quayle

View Jonathan's profile

Jonathan

2605 posts in 1747 days


#7 posted 03-24-2010 09:49 PM

JPC, I haven’t clamped blocks in place. I’d be concerned about it resting against the blade and causing an issue there. Not sure how I’d be able to clamp blocks inside?

Patron, that’s a good idea that I will also consider. Thanks.

CharlieL and algale, it’s funny you should mention the PALs because I actually ran across those this morning when trying to troubleshoot my issue. If I continue to struggle with it, I’ll probably fork over the money for the kit, as it would save me trouble down the road.

On that last note, how often does everyone have to realign their trunnions? I’m sure things do tend to move a minute amount over time, and the PALs would definitely make it a LOT easier if I’m going to have to realign things on a semi-regular basis.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

View jcwalleye's profile

jcwalleye

291 posts in 1770 days


#8 posted 03-25-2010 02:35 AM

Another idea that I didn’t think too much of when I read it is: loosen the bolts a little and then whack the table with a rubber mallet in the direction you want it to go. Hopefully, the bolts starting out tighter will have less of a tendancy to move during the final tightening. I’ve never done this so can’t recommend it. Just throwing the idea out.

-- Trees, a wonderful gift --Joe--

View sphere's profile

sphere

109 posts in 1728 days


#9 posted 03-25-2010 02:39 AM

tack with a mig welder, then tighten it down.

-- Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Wood Works

View Jonathan's profile

Jonathan

2605 posts in 1747 days


#10 posted 03-25-2010 04:31 PM

Update, a.k.a. – my knees need a break!

OK, getting closer. Before I started attempting to make the proper adjustments, I tightened the bolts down a bit so I could get an accurate measurement of how far off I was.

Between the front and rear of the blade, it was toed-out by a little over 11/1000ths! I could see that it was way off, but I wasn’t sure by how much. Funny how after a while, your eyes can detect that you’re off by only a few 1000ths of an inch!

So I did a combination of things: I tried rotating the two rear washers a touch since they were relatively easy to hold in-place with a pair of needlenose pliers while a turned the bolts a touch with a wrench. I also tried using a different bolt as a pivot point.

I figured I’d do a rough run first, so didn’t get it 11/1000ths off, since I thought the adjustments I made might’ve nullified the previous issue.

After tightening everything back down, I’m still off by about .004-.0045.

I needed to take a break though because my knees and back were beginning to feel it, what with the up-and-down a few dozen times.

Getting closer! I’m going to go ahead and use the same bolt as the pivot point and see if loosening the other 3 and then toeing it in an extra .004 will do it. I hope so. Not as frustrated as yesterday because you all have provided me with plenty of options to alleviate the problem.

Almost there!

In regards to the last two suggestions:
Sphere, I don’t have a welder, but thanks for the suggestion,
and jcwalleye, if I tap the table, the trunnions will just move with it since they’re bolted to the table top.

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

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Jonathan

2605 posts in 1747 days


#11 posted 03-25-2010 05:23 PM

OK, I know this was way more hassle than it should’ve been, but I just got it done.

I’m within .001-.0015, depending on how the feeler gauge drags.

Probably could’ve made the PALs by now, but I finally got it. I will be considering those for the future though, as this was a bit tedious, but hey, now I’ll know what to do for next time!

Next step is to cut the ZCI. I obviously wanted the blade in the correct spot though before I started messing with it so there really is zero clearance on the sides of it. After that, setup the rip fence, as I know it’s a little off (toed-out, so at least it’s safe).

I also want to add a splitter soon to the ZCI. I think I’m going to use a 3/32nds drill bit for a splitter. Just need to find a drill press to use for a minute to do that. Put a 1/8th bit in the press and line up the bit in the blade slot, then put in a 3/32nds bit, slide the ZCI over a touch and drill the hole, then put in the old bit facing down.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

I hope I provided some comic relief along the way. ;)

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

View SawdustJunky's profile

SawdustJunky

98 posts in 1688 days


#12 posted 03-25-2010 05:48 PM

Yeap….had the same issue with my delta tablesaw. Ordered the Pals kit for it, Installed in 10 minutes, Fell right into square. Best $20 I’ve spend in while. http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html

-- In the end it is more about the memories we make than the pieces we build.

View jcwalleye's profile

jcwalleye

291 posts in 1770 days


#13 posted 03-26-2010 07:11 PM

You are right Jonathon. I was thinking of my saw (Ridgid 4511) which has cabinet mounted trunnions. Smacking the table obviously wouldn’t work with table mounted trunnions. I wanted to reread but couldn’t find the instructions that said to give the top a small whack.

It sounds like you are pretty close to getting it dialed in.

-- Trees, a wonderful gift --Joe--

View ajosephg's profile

ajosephg

1854 posts in 2258 days


#14 posted 03-26-2010 07:27 PM

Been there, done that.

1. CRS (cold rolled steel) washers will deform resulting in a memory effect. Replace with hardened washers.

2. PALS or equivalent are the best long term solution.

3. Check and adjust alignment with the belt on. Its tension will affect the alignment.

4. A dial indicator will give you better accuracy than a feeler gauge.

-- Joe

View Jonathan's profile

Jonathan

2605 posts in 1747 days


#15 posted 03-27-2010 03:48 PM

Joe,

Thanks for all the suggestions. Next time I have to align everything, I’ll probably change the washers and install PALs, but now that I’ve got it where I want it, I’m not touching anything!

I have not checked the alignment with the belt back on, but should do that.

And speaking of the belt, now that I’ve shifted things around, I noticed the belt is up on one side of the pulley in the back, rather than sitting down in the groove. I think I need to shift the motor now. I tried lifting the motor to relieve the tension, then reseating the belt. But as soon as I turn the saw on, the belt jumps up onto one side of the pulley. I’m concerned that this will cause premature wear on the red link belt, plus I’m sure it’s not trasferring the power as efficiently either. I need to rectify this situation before I cut more wood.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

-- Jonathan, Denver, CO "Constructive criticism is welcome and valued as it gives me new perspectives and helps me to advance as a woodworker."

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