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Dust Collector Setup for 400-600sqft shop

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Forum topic by Wyatt3828 posted 04-20-2016 03:29 AM 1139 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Wyatt3828

1 post in 230 days


04-20-2016 03:29 AM

Topic tags/keywords: dust collector 50-767 harbor freight

Hi everyone,

I’m looking to switch from my current setup of shopvac+dust deputy to an actual dust collector. I’ve started down the rabbit hole of dust collection system design and gotten a little bogged down…

First of all, my needs: I currently have a 2-car garage shop, but I foresee moving to a 3-car garage within the next few years. Ideally I’d like to be able to pipe runs up the wall, across the ceiling and down to tools. So I’m thinking max run lengths of maybe 50 ft or so (if this isn’t possible within my budget, I’m thinking I could keep run lengths to no more than 30 ft). I’d like to keep the cost of the collector (collector+filter+separator, NOT including ducting, mounts, etc.) under $600.

First question: Can I achieve good dust collection across 30-50ft+ run lengths using a 1.5-2hp unit under $600? The research I’ve done would seem to indicate both yes and no to this question, so I’d like to draw on some practical knowledge from the members of the forum.

Next question: Assuming the answer above is Yes, which dust collector do I get? I Initially decided to go with the 2hp Harbor Freight collector w/ Wynn Filter and some sort of separator at the recommendation of so many youtubes. But after reading this article, it looks like the HF model performs pretty poorly against it’s peers. Also, I haven’t seen any definitive examples out there of a HF unit hooked up to extended ducting performing well.. can anyone attest to this?

At the article’s recommendation, I went looking for the Delta 50-760, only to find that it’s no longer sold. The Delta 50-767 appears to be it’s successor, but I’m wondering if it’s overpriced at $499? Assuming I kept it’s stock 1 micron bag, it would only be about $150 more than a HF unit+Wynn, but I’m wondering if it would be worth it/would it be better than a HF setup?

I’ve also looked into Grizzly, Shop Fox, and Pennstate collectors (though it looks like their collectors are all out of stock, are they still sold?) among others.. but it appears that these are all similar +/- some specs, features, pricing, etc. Are these better than the HF unit, and are there any standouts among these?

In summary, having no experience with dust collectors, I’m wondering if I could achieve better-than-adequate dust collection with a 1.5-2hp collector across properly designed ducting in a 2-3 car garage at a price point of $600 or less? If so, can a HF setup definitely provide this? And finally, are the other 1.5-2hp units out there significantly better than a HF setup?

If you’ve made it this far, thanks for reading, and I really appreciate everyone’s advice.

-Wyatt


16 replies so far

View JeffP's profile

JeffP

573 posts in 854 days


#1 posted 04-20-2016 11:39 AM

The first question to ask here is what your goal is. The term “dust collector” comes with a lot of unfortunate baggage in the way of confusion and mis-information.

The main reason for that is that “dust” is way too general a term, and doesn’t get to the heart of the difference between the two most common goals. The ensuing confusion leads to most folks missing altogether the fact that there are two very different reasons for putting in dust collection, and orders of magnitude difference in what is needed to accomplish the two.

1) make the shop cleaner

2) avoid health issues from inhaling very fine (invisible to the human eye) particles in the air created primarily (but not exclusively) by power tools.

Almost anything you can throw together will help with goal 1 above.
On goal 1, the smallness of your shop actually does help you get away with a smaller system. Even a small inexpensive system can go a long way towards cleaning up a small shop.

Nothing you have described will really solve goal 2 above.
Even with a small shop, the experts tell us that a small system doesn’t get the job done even in a small shop. They say that very large volumes of fast-moving air have to be pulled through the machines to keep the air in the shop healthy.

Weather issues not withstanding, if you are looking to accomplish goal 2, your best bet for the shop described is to use the OGD method (open garage door) and a large shop fan, and use a dust mask while cutting/sanding and for a few minutes after.

This is what “they” tell us. I haven’t done significant measurements of my own. In the end you will have to consider your own sensitivity to the dust, how much time you spend in the shop, your pocketbook, etc.

As a broad generality, if you are trying to get the most bang for your buck, and your shop is a garage, moving the dusty air outside will get you the most improvement for the least dollars. Also look into venting whatever DC you get outside rather than spending lots of money on filters. A garage shop is often most likely to have outside venting as a practical solution.

-- Last week I finally got my $*i# together. Unfortunately, it was in my shop, so I will probably never find it again.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2192 posts in 943 days


#2 posted 04-20-2016 11:54 AM


Can I achieve good dust collection across 30-50ft+ run lengths using a 1.5-2hp unit under $600

JeffP makes a good point. It depends on whether you want true dust collection or not. If you just want to stop sweeping up shavings, you don’t need near the power if you don’t want to wear a dust mask.

My set up is not optimal. 1 1/2HP 1100CFM Jet unit on a SDD cyclone with 6” ducts. It pulls a 16” drum sander, 8” jointer and 20” planer adequately only because they are within 8’ of the blower. If they were 30 feet away it would a different story.

My bandsaw and table saw are a little further away and the DC for them is just “OK”.

My longest run is 25’ to the TS. I know my blower is too small and I will upgrade to a 3HP unit.

For your setup, I would keep doing some research and looking at the most efficient layout with the least amount of bends. Lots of guys like the cheap HF units, but the CFM curves I’ve looked at they don’t rank too well. That being said, I think the HF unit – with modifications – would probably work well. If it doesn’t, you haven’t spent a lot of money.

Lots of knowledgeable guys here, but I wouldn’t hesitate to talk to tech support at Oneida or Grizzly. I think for $100 they will design a system for you.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Jim Finn's profile

Jim Finn

2409 posts in 2385 days


#3 posted 04-20-2016 12:01 PM

My shop is smaller than yours and I have a two HP dust collecter from Grizzly (240v).

To help move more air to get the fine dust I ran six inch metal to each piece of equipment. I used 24 gauge pipe and 26 gauge ells. I located my equipment along the walls so I could run the duct along the wall on the floor. The inlet to my duct collector is down there so I did not have to run the duct up and down the wall for each piece of equipment. This keeps the total duct run shorter.

Using less duct makes installation cheaper, easier and more efficient.

-- "You may have your PHD but I have my GED and my DD 214"

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

424 posts in 588 days


#4 posted 04-20-2016 02:02 PM



Hi everyone,

I m looking to switch from my current setup of shopvac+dust deputy to an actual dust collector. I ve started down the rabbit hole of dust collection system design and gotten a little bogged down…
- Wyatt3828


Let’s take a poll and find out how many people can repeat that last sentence. I embarked on the journey a few years ago and never did do anything (paralysis by analysis). I’m still on it though and had it down to the ShopFox Cyclone ($$$$) because I want big bag capacity to limit the frequency of emptying/cleaning. A few people do the dust collection at the tools to handle the big stuff and back it up with an overhead unit to minimize the airborne stuff.

View JK0702's profile

JK0702

131 posts in 1594 days


#5 posted 04-20-2016 07:10 PM


Hi everyone,

I m looking to switch from my current setup of shopvac+dust deputy to an actual dust collector. I ve started down the rabbit hole of dust collection system design and gotten a little bogged down…
- Wyatt3828

Let s take a poll and find out how many people can repeat that last sentence. I embarked on the journey a few years ago and never did do anything (paralysis by analysis). I m still on it though and had it down to the ShopFox Cyclone ($$$$) because I want big bag capacity to limit the frequency of emptying/cleaning. A few people do the dust collection at the tools to handle the big stuff and back it up with an overhead unit to minimize the airborne stuff.

- teejk02

I am also currently on this journey. 2 car garage, 1 1/2 hp collector with TS, BS, DP, Jointer, planer, chop saw, etc. Where to put them and where to run the ducts has also put me in paralysis by analysis land. Still haven’t got it down yet.

-- John - Huntington Beach, CA --- Growth occurs when we get out of our comfort zone.

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

424 posts in 588 days


#6 posted 04-20-2016 08:08 PM


Hi everyone,

I m looking to switch from my current setup of shopvac+dust deputy to an actual dust collector. I ve started down the rabbit hole of dust collection system design and gotten a little bogged down…
- Wyatt3828

Let s take a poll and find out how many people can repeat that last sentence. I embarked on the journey a few years ago and never did do anything (paralysis by analysis). I m still on it though and had it down to the ShopFox Cyclone ($$$$) because I want big bag capacity to limit the frequency of emptying/cleaning. A few people do the dust collection at the tools to handle the big stuff and back it up with an overhead unit to minimize the airborne stuff.

- teejk02

I am also currently on this journey. 2 car garage, 1 1/2 hp collector with TS, BS, DP, Jointer, planer, chop saw, etc. Where to put them and where to run the ducts has also put me in paralysis by analysis land. Still haven t got it down yet.

- JK0702

So far nobody has suggested he visit Bill Pentz! That was the killer for my journey…extremely informative yet total brain overload! Since I embarked I am kinda morphing towards 2 cheap mobile units that I can roll from machine to machine as needed. Doesn’t solve my desire to minimize the bag emptying though (I truly hate that part) so I’ll continue to “analyze”.

View ArtMann's profile

ArtMann

132 posts in 279 days


#7 posted 04-21-2016 01:38 AM

The only way I can see for a dust collector of the type you describe to work effectively would be if you roll it from machine to machine and hook up through a short segment of 4 inch or larger hose. A thirty foot run will introduce enough resistance to air flow (static pressure or SP) to cut your air flow by half or more.

View JBrow's profile

JBrow

818 posts in 383 days


#8 posted 04-21-2016 02:54 AM

Wyatt3828,

I have never seen anyone mention Woodmaster dust collectors in all the dust collection threads I have read, I suppose because they mostly sell planers and drum sanders. It may be worth a look, even though their 3 hp unit stretches your budget a bit. Both units look like a lot of bang for the buck and as budget and needs dictate, dust collection could be upgraded by perhaps adding a cyclone separator and fine dust filtration with the Woodmaster dust collector continuing to be the heart of your dust collection system. Woodmaster offers two models; a 3 hp that they claim pulls 2688 CFM using a 4 micron filter bag at a cost of $700 (excluding the dust collection drum):

https://www.woodmastertools.com/NS/accessdetail.cfm?PID=85

For $1000 Woodmaster will sell a 5 hp unit that pulls 4944 CFM with two 4 micron bags (excluding the 2 collection drums):

https://www.woodmastertools.com/NS/accessdetail.cfm?PID=88

Both systems, I would think, would perform better than a smaller unit especially in a shop with 30’ to 50’ of pipe; probably doing a good job of keeping the shop clean. These two systems probably do a fair job keeping fine particles out of the air. But then keeping the fine dust out of the air also requires extremely effective hoods and shrouds at the machines, which can be a real challenge.

It is a good bet that neither of these dust collectors will offer the claimed air flow at the machines; though I suspect suction at the tools would be pretty good. A Fan Performance Curve is really required to assess the air flow of the system, especially when running pipe.

As to durability, since I own neither of these Woodmaster systems, I cannot say. However, this year I upgraded from a ½ hp Woodmaster dust collector bought in the mid-90s. It worked as well the day I gave it to my nephew as it did on the day I bought it. I also have a Woodmaster planer and drum sander which are, in my opinion, very good machines. My guess is that their dust collectors are powered by Lesson motors, as that seems to be Woodmaster’s preferred motor. Woodmaster states these are American made machines.

View jgt1942's profile

jgt1942

137 posts in 1351 days


#9 posted 04-25-2016 04:35 AM

As suggest Bill Pentz has some excellent information.

A 2HP motor would be the smallest I’d recommend (this is what I’m using, I got mine free). If my research is correct a 5” main run with 4” drops is best for a 2HP motor. I see others used a 6” main run but from my research unless you have a 3HP or larger motor you just shot yourself in the foot.

Check out the Thien baffle forum at http://www.jpthien.com/smf/ You can build this for almost nothing, this is what I use and I’m SUPER pleased with the results. Somewhere in my research I found a website that compared this to the cyclone separators and both were just under 97% efficiency.

If possible run the pipes in your attic area rather than the shop ceiling. I’m going to be redesigning my setup and will run the pipes in the attic area of my garage.

-- JohnT

View jonah's profile

jonah

687 posts in 2761 days


#10 posted 04-25-2016 10:55 PM

With the limitations of your budget, you are better off with a mobile solution that you roll from machine to machine.

Something like this: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/99119

Get a $150 HF DC. Add a $75 truck air filter and $30 worth of parts for a Thien baffle. Then build something you can roll around from machine to machine, or set your shop up around the dust collector. You’d be surprised how close you can get most/all of your machines to the thing.

View jgt1942's profile

jgt1942

137 posts in 1351 days


#11 posted 04-27-2016 09:02 AM

Going the portable route is a much less expensive solution, following is what I initially did (I’m still using it)

Note the Thien on on the right and I used Plexiglas so I could easily see the action. It also serves to let me know I have over filled the Brute. The pic does not include the lazy-susan I installed under the Brute can that goes up/down to easily remove the Brute. I currently use a 20 GAL Brute, I goofed and did not allow enough room for the 32 GAL Brute. Some guys use a 50 GAL drum but this would be MUCH too heavy for me, I may find the 32 GAL to be too much.

I left the two cloth bags just because that is the way it was given to me and I could not afford a filter for the top bag. The only time I get anything in the lower bag is when I overfill the Brute. I finished the build in March of 2014 and have never removed either of the bags but I have emptied the Brute numerous times.

Initially it was great because I could easily move it around but as the shop filled up I could only move it a few inches and some of my tools cannot be reached and now others are very difficult to reach.

Thus I will soon be rebuilding everything and running the 5” main line in my attic area with 4” drops in critical areas. In the rebuild I’m going to use the Bellmouth for the intake to the DC.

-- JohnT

View Cato's profile

Cato

693 posts in 2775 days


#12 posted 04-27-2016 12:04 PM

I’m in 2 car garage and opt for keeping it simple. I have a Pennstate 1.5 hp DC with canister inline with a trashcan collector for the heavier stuff. I have one hose connected to the tablesaw and one that I move between the jointer and planer. I have a Jet AFS suspended from the ceiling. It all works very well for me.

View DalyArcher's profile

DalyArcher

72 posts in 582 days


#13 posted 04-27-2016 04:32 PM

I have not settled on anything for my new shop build yet, however I did buy a King air cleaner for my current workspace and will install it in my new 500 square foot shop, though I may upgrade to the larger model. I think with the air cleaner in place I may look to building something similar to JGT. A 1 1/2 – 2 hp unit to roll around until I can afford the time, money and interest to run ducting.

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

5991 posts in 1791 days


#14 posted 04-27-2016 05:28 PM

You need to ask yourself if you want:

1. a dust collector

or…

2. a dust collector project

I wouldn’t go less than a “true” (220v ac) 2 HP for your shop. 2-3 would likely serve you well. Unless your doing a lot of woodworking, I think 5 is overkill for most home use.

Plan on a dedicated 220 v circuit

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View Hermit's profile

Hermit

38 posts in 788 days


#15 posted 04-27-2016 06:11 PM

Greetings…getting ready to go through this as well. I purchased and found this book to be very helpful. http://www.amazon.com/Woodshop-Dust-Control-Complete-Setting/dp/1561584991
I’m leaning towards this DC. http://www.amazon.com/Jet-DC-1100VX-CK-Collector-230-Volt-2-Micron/dp/B004T86NAK
Planning on placing it in the rear/center of the shop. Ducting to run each side sitting on top of the stem wall. All will be hidden under work benches/cabinets and then stubbed up through the bench top at various locations. Only tool in the middle of the shop will be the table saw with a flex hose.

-- Sawdust? You mean man Glitter!!!

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