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Pre-Lateral Stanley restoration update *now new pictures* and new question

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Forum topic by Marn64 posted 04-09-2016 11:44 PM 1353 views 0 times favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Marn64

209 posts in 252 days


04-09-2016 11:44 PM

Topic tags/keywords: plane refurbishing question

So last week, I made my first post asking some questions about restoring my Type 4 Stanley no 7 to user condition, and the response was, shall we say, much greater and helpful than I anticipated. With that in mind, I’d like to thank everyone who responded and gave their input! as such, I decided to post some pictures of my progress so far. I do, however, have one more question. After I gave the body a 4 hr. soak in citric acid, much of the rust came off, and I lost a lot less japanning than I thought I would. My next step is to touch up the bald spots on the body with Pontypool asphaltum, and I want to make sure as much rust as possible is off before I do this. So my question is, Based on the pictures, am I good or should I bathe it again?
here are the pictures
Here are the new pictures, I kept the old ones in the from before the post update so you all could compare.
New pictures

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee


23 replies so far

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

1807 posts in 605 days


#1 posted 04-10-2016 01:34 AM

IMHO, there is still some oxidation spots that I can see. I would give it an overnight soak in the citrus acid. It’s possible to completely remove the rust and worth a ittle extra time and effort to do so.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

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JayT

4786 posts in 1678 days


#2 posted 04-10-2016 01:44 AM

Agree with Ken, get all the rust off before re-coating. Be aware that cast iron will flash rust almost immediately when you take it out and dry it off. That is easy to remove with some steel wool or a wire brush. What you have there looks like there’s still some spots of deep rust, not just flash rust.

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

View Don W's profile

Don W

17971 posts in 2034 days


#3 posted 04-10-2016 10:47 AM

There is enough gone that I would just strip it and refinish. I don’t see what you gain leaving what little bit is left. Its beyond “touch up” at this point. It will be a better job and will be less noticeable that it’s been restored.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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benchbuilder

266 posts in 1917 days


#4 posted 04-10-2016 12:32 PM

Looks like there is some loose jappaning also and rust is most possibley under that to. If at all possible I would give it a light and I say light sandblasting to remove that. If not sandblasting then a small brass wire wheel on a drill. You have to remove ALL the rust.

View Marn64's profile

Marn64

209 posts in 252 days


#5 posted 04-10-2016 05:16 PM



IMHO, there is still some oxidation spots that I can see. I would give it an overnight soak in the citrus acid. It s possible to completely remove the rust and worth a ittle extra time and effort to do so.

- HokieKen

how safe is keeping it in overnight? I’ve been told that keeping it in for too long can cause pitting.

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee

View Don W's profile

Don W

17971 posts in 2034 days


#6 posted 04-10-2016 06:51 PM

IMHO, there is still some oxidation spots that I can see. I would give it an overnight soak in the citrus acid. It s possible to completely remove the rust and worth a ittle extra time and effort to do so.

- HokieKen

how safe is keeping it in overnight? I ve been told that keeping it in for too long can cause pitting.

- Marn64

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/27/hand-plane-restoration-by-the-no-soak-method/

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Marn64

209 posts in 252 days


#7 posted 04-10-2016 07:11 PM


IMHO, there is still some oxidation spots that I can see. I would give it an overnight soak in the citrus acid. It s possible to completely remove the rust and worth a ittle extra time and effort to do so.

- HokieKen

how safe is keeping it in overnight? I ve been told that keeping it in for too long can cause pitting.

- Marn64

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/27/hand-plane-restoration-by-the-no-soak-method/

- Don W

Interesting, the only wire wheel brush I have is steel, and I have a feeling that is way to coarse, would a brass wheel be any finer? Also, what kind of brush is the hand brush that you use? Thanks for the link by the way.

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee

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Don W

17971 posts in 2034 days


#8 posted 04-10-2016 10:18 PM

If it’s not a spiral, its probably not to course. A brass would be easier on cast though. I think most underestimate the power needed to remove japanning.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Marn64

209 posts in 252 days


#9 posted 04-10-2016 10:23 PM



If it s not a spiral, its probably not to course. A brass would be easier on cast though. I think most underestimate the power needed to remove japanning.

- Don W

Good to know, how about the new pictures? Does it look like there’s still some rust in the pitting?

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee

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Don W

17971 posts in 2034 days


#10 posted 04-10-2016 10:40 PM


If it s not a spiral, its probably not to course. A brass would be easier on cast though. I think most underestimate the power needed to remove japanning.

- Don W

Good to know, how about the new pictures? Does it look like there s still some rust in the pitting?

- Marn64

I don’t see any rust in n the pictures.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.net

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Marn64

209 posts in 252 days


#11 posted 04-10-2016 10:44 PM


If it s not a spiral, its probably not to course. A brass would be easier on cast though. I think most underestimate the power needed to remove japanning.

- Don W

Good to know, how about the new pictures? Does it look like there s still some rust in the pitting?

- Marn64

I don t see any rust in n the pictures.

- Don W

cool! thanks for the no soak method by the way, I did loose a little bit of japanning at the front of the plane but it worked wonders on the deep pitted rust.

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee

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tcmw

4 posts in 212 days


#12 posted 05-12-2016 08:53 AM

Hi guys and gals, I’m hoping people are still watching this thread.
I’m at a similar point in restoring some tools at the moment, the main ones being three spokeshaves,
The stripped down tools are taking their turns in a hammerite dip rust treatment solution which seems to be working really well.

With regards to your remaining rust I would just grab some medium wire wool and have a go at the spots by hand.
If you start getting fed up with the amount of odd spots you keep finding then stick it back in the dip.

There is a fair amount of japanning and paint left on my various tools and I don’t like getting rid of the factory finishes, especially proper japanning, but given the long delays between me getting chances to use my tools and the rust incubator that is my garage I find the more I can cover up with paint to minimise the amount of rust I have to clean up next time the better.

So my first question is can anyone recommend or dissuade me from any particular type of spray finish?
I want something that is as close as possible in finish and feel to the traditional Stanley planes finish but also of course both tough and durable.

So far recommended are Hammerite gloss black and any engine enamel spray.

My second question is, bearing in mind I’m in the UK so I might not be able to get hold of the same products, can anyone suggest the best paint stripper that will stand a chance on paint, enamel and japanning?
For a couple of reasons I can’t get out and about to find somewhere to shot blast the tools and I neither have nor really like to use on tools a wire wheel so it has to be a chemical stripper unless some genius can come up with another option.

It may take me a while as both being disabled and having lots of things on the go means that everything runs at a snails pace here but when I am done I will try to post pictures.

Marn64, I very much look forward to finding out what process you decide to go through and how your chosen finish comes out on your Stanley No.7.

View Marn64's profile

Marn64

209 posts in 252 days


#13 posted 05-12-2016 04:17 PM



Hi guys and gals, I m hoping people are still watching this thread.
I m at a similar point in restoring some tools at the moment, the main ones being three spokeshaves,
The stripped down tools are taking their turns in a hammerite dip rust treatment solution which seems to be working really well.

With regards to your remaining rust I would just grab some medium wire wool and have a go at the spots by hand.
If you start getting fed up with the amount of odd spots you keep finding then stick it back in the dip.

There is a fair amount of japanning and paint left on my various tools and I don t like getting rid of the factory finishes, especially proper japanning, but given the long delays between me getting chances to use my tools and the rust incubator that is my garage I find the more I can cover up with paint to minimise the amount of rust I have to clean up next time the better.

So my first question is can anyone recommend or dissuade me from any particular type of spray finish?
I want something that is as close as possible in finish and feel to the traditional Stanley planes finish but also of course both tough and durable.

So far recommended are Hammerite gloss black and any engine enamel spray.

My second question is, bearing in mind I m in the UK so I might not be able to get hold of the same products, can anyone suggest the best paint stripper that will stand a chance on paint, enamel and japanning?
For a couple of reasons I can t get out and about to find somewhere to shot blast the tools and I neither have nor really like to use on tools a wire wheel so it has to be a chemical stripper unless some genius can come up with another option.

It may take me a while as both being disabled and having lots of things on the go means that everything runs at a snails pace here but when I am done I will try to post pictures.

Marn64, I very much look forward to finding out what process you decide to go through and how your chosen finish comes out on your Stanley No.7.

- tcmw


If you want to really get authentic, you can make your own Japanning. I know of some recipes around. The pigment is Asphaltum, also called Gilsonite. It is basically bituminous coal crushed to a powder. It is usually mixed with amber shellac flake and Turpentine and sometimes boiled linseed oil. I don’t know the ratios for mixing. You will want to use Japan Drier for it, without it it won’t cure well. As for my plane, it still has very good japanning on it, about 75 percent. I am also a watercolor artist so I am going to sacrifice one of my older superfine point brushes to try and fill in every last bald spot with Pontypool Japanning. Suffice to say, I’m not looking forward to it, but it sounded like a fun challenge for me to do.

-- Benjamin, Milwaukee

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JayT

4786 posts in 1678 days


#14 posted 05-12-2016 05:38 PM

So my first question is can anyone recommend or dissuade me from any particular type of spray finish?
I want something that is as close as possible in finish and feel to the traditional Stanley planes finish but also of course both tough and durable.

So far recommended are Hammerite gloss black and any engine enamel spray.

My second question is, bearing in mind I m in the UK so I might not be able to get hold of the same products, can anyone suggest the best paint stripper that will stand a chance on paint, enamel and japanning?

- tcmw

I did a blog series a while back that shows a fairly simple way to replicate original japanning. A couple things—for spray paint, the right color engine enamel is pretty close to orginal color and texture, hammered black is not. The homemade japanning is also tougher than spray enamel in my small sample sizes. The finish on my japanned planes have not chipped at all, while I have a couple small nicks in those that were painted.

Don’t know what you can or can’t get in the UK, but the blog might be a good place to start. For stripper, I usually use aerosol paint stripper, because it works fast. I have, however also used slower “citrus” strippers and they have worked just fine, too. If it will remove oil based paint, it should remove japanning, just might take several sessions.

Good luck.

-- "Good judgement is the result of experience. A lot of experience is the result of poor judgement."

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tcmw

4 posts in 212 days


#15 posted 05-15-2016 03:29 AM

Thank you Marn64 and JayT for your responses.

I don’t think I’ll be going as far as to make up some proper japanning although I’d definitely consider it if I had a lot of tools to do at once or something that was a bit rare.
Your comment calling it ‘Pontypool Japanning’ did encourage me to do a quick Google search as I had never heard it called that before.
I was interested to find that an awful lot of the early Japanning done outside Japan was done not far away from where I live in Birmingham where sadly the knowledge no longer exists as the recipes were kept so secret.
I look forward to hearing how your touch ups go, Marn64, I have a fairly steady hand but it’s not something I’d attempt so good luck.

Thanks very much for the link to your blog, JayT, I have started reading it with great interest.
Funny you should mention aerosol based paint strippers as I’ve actually been looking and they don’t seem as common in the UK and the ones that look like they would do the job are about twice the price of the bottled stuff.

I don’t know if you have Hammerite where you are but it’s a brand that do various finishes and it was their smooth gloss black I am considering not the hammered effect finish.

I am terribly indecisive and currently have it narrowed down to three options, the first of which is to just leave it as there is still quite a lot of japanning left and just hope it’s not covered in rust when I next need it.

I’ll try to sort some pictures of its current state for you to check out.

The other two options are a conventional spray paint and an engine enamel, links to which are below.
HYCOTE XUK0121 Engine Aerosol Spray Paint 400 ml – Enamel Black https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003AN5VBC/ref=cm_sw_r_taa_BC-nxbGT0BHD9

Hammerite 5092965 Metal Paint: Smooth Black 400ml (Aerosol) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0041WCPL0/ref=cm_sw_r_taa_gQ-nxbD8FVWKJ

From what I’ve read I think the Hammerite is probably the better quality and most rust preventative and the engine enamel is likely to be the closer match to Japanning but that’s mostly just a guess.

Anyway I’ve rambled on enough so thanks for reading and any suggestions.

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