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Forum topic by Kinbaum posted 03-12-2010 04:59 AM 5972 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Kinbaum's profile


14 posts in 2441 days

03-12-2010 04:59 AM

I bought the Jet Pro Shop Table Saw in February. I have set it up and bought a Leecraft zero clearance insert to go with my infinity Super General blade. After cutting the insert, the blade rubs against the insert. Not too bad but its noticeable. When i shut the saw off and check to see where it is rubbing it appears to be rubbing on 2 or 3 teeth. I have checked the blade for flatness, it is flat. I have checked the blade to the table using an incra square. It is at 90 degrees. I dont know if i have an arbor issue? I used another blade and the same thing happens. Not as noticeable, but it is their. Does it have anything to do with the alternating bevel blades? Could a few of the teeth on the super general be out of square or off a little? When i measure the blade to the table to ensure 90 degrees, it is to the surface of the blade before the carbide tip, not to the carbide tip.

I plan on buying a woodpeckers saw gauge and will be able to check the arbor run out.

Also when you turn off the saw it makes a clicking noise, then faint rubbing sound. I do not know if this is normal or an arbor issue. The clicking to me isn’t a big deal, the faint rubbing sound is.

Any advice or response would be greatly appreciated.

9 replies so far

View SnowyRiver's profile


51452 posts in 2904 days

#1 posted 03-12-2010 05:08 AM

The clicking and rubbing sound is a good question. My Delta grinder does that when turned off, and my PM66 has the rubbing sound. I always thought it was a breaking mechanism in the motor to slow the blade or grinding stone down so it stops and doesnt spin for a long time after turning it off.

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

#2 posted 03-12-2010 06:52 AM

Wayne has the right idea. Most induction motors have an internal centrifugal switch that supplies voltage to a starting coil for the beginning stage of the motor’s startup. This is typically involving a capacitor that applies extra current to the starting coil, allowing the shaft to build up some speed—even under a load, such as the belt-and-pulleys driving the tablesaw blade. After the motor reaches a certain RPM, this switch ‘swings’ or ‘flings’ outward, disconnecting voltage from the starting coil, and connecting the main motor coil (and sometimes another capacitor). This whole process takes only a fraction of a second…

When you turn the saw off, the process reverses, only much slower. As the saw (or other tool) slows down, the centrifugal switch will close when the motor’s shaft drops below a certain RPM, and that is the clicking sound you hear. From what I’ve seen on my own tools (and motor replacement woes), this has a very limited effect on the slowing of the motor, because the click-whirring (or “rubbing sound” as you termed it, Kinbaum) is only a gentle closing of the internal switch. The real ‘braking’ effect is, in the case of a table saw, the fact that the pulley sizes on the arbor and the motor are different. Since the pulley on the arbor is usually smaller than that on the motor shaft, it becomes very hard for the momentum of the blade and arbor to transfer back to the motor and allow it to continue spinning. The sheer difference in the mass of the motor as opposed to the blade/arbor make it slow down and stop relatively quickly. If the motor was running without any belts or pulleys, and then it was shut off, it would spin quite a while longer, but when the internal switch closed, the gentle rubbing action would help it to slow down.

I have an old 1HP 3-phase motor that spins for 3 to 5 minutes because it has no internal switch like your motor does. So the switch does have somewhat of an effect on the slowing of the motor…WHEW!!

Now, as far as the blade rubbing on the zero-clearance insert, I’ve found it common for the tools I work with to have between .003” and .008” of Axial Runout, which means that even though your excellent Incra square is telling you that the blade is square, it can’t tell your eye that the blade wobbles by only a few thousandths of an inch. When you get the dial indicator from Woodpeckers, it will give you a reading of the runout. You can already HEAR the runout, so you know it’s happening. I find that with an excellent blade like a Freud, your accuracy and quality of cut will not diminish at all from this runout. Just ‘zero out’ your fence to the blade, on the point where the teeth spin closest to the fence. Your splitter should still be effective also with a small amount of runout.

But sometimes the runout can be remedied, so check the blade for any unevenness in the finish of the blade’s main body. Also check the surface that the blade rests against on the arbor for any metal burrs, slight surface corrosion, dirt, dust, etc. And make sure you don’t over tighten the arbor nut. I find that a firm ‘finger-tight’ is more than plenty, because the rotation of the blade will snug the nut when you turn the saw on. As you continue to use the saw, the zero-clearance insert will become slightly larger than the blade kerf. You’ll still get very smooth, tearout-free cuts, but the blade will not rub on the insert as much.

Sorry if this is thoroughly boring!!! LOL
I hope some of this helps, and if someone who is a REAL expert in electric motors or saw blades sees that my reasoning and logic is completely worthless and full-of-holes, please let us know…


-- Lane Custom Guitars and Basses

View Sawkerf's profile


1730 posts in 2493 days

#3 posted 03-12-2010 07:27 AM

You can do a crude check for arbor runout with your fingers, a sharpie, and a little patience.

With the saw off and the blade at full height, rotate the blade by hand listening for the rubbing sound. When (if) you hear it, mark the top blade tooth with your sharpie. Without letting the arbor turn, loosen the nut and rotate the blade 90* and tighten the nut. Rotate the blade again and see where the marked tooth is when you hear the rubbing sound. If the mark isn’t at the top, you probably have runout – but you’ll need an indicator to determine how much.

-- Adversity doesn't build reveals it.

View TomHintz's profile


207 posts in 2822 days

#4 posted 03-12-2010 09:42 AM

When my zero clearance inserts are new they always made a slight rubbing sound against the blade. I think that is because it actually is “zero clearance” then but the opening wears outwards slightly with use and that slight contact noise goes away, mostly anyway. If the blade stays perfectly flat it always make a tiny bit of noise at the insert.

-- Tom Hintz,

View knotscott's profile


7147 posts in 2800 days

#5 posted 03-12-2010 12:05 PM

It’s at all unusual for a new insert to rub a little for quite a while, especially if it’s phenolic. The Super General is a full kerf blade…it’s possible that it’s slightly wider than the other blades you tried. It’s very unlikely that it’s from the alternating bevels of the blade. It’s possible that a few teeth are off, but the Infinity blades are as well made or better than any I’ve tried, so it’s unlikely.

Most motors go thru a phase at shutdown that results in some interaction with the motor capacitors that can cause a bit of a shutter and cause some additional rubbing….also normal, and will also subside with time as the insert wears. If the saw is running and cutting well at speed, all’s well.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View knotscott's profile


7147 posts in 2800 days

#6 posted 03-12-2010 05:52 PM

Edit to above…It’s NOT at all unusual for a new insert to rub a little for quite a while, especially if it’s phenolic…

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View TheDane's profile


4939 posts in 3087 days

#7 posted 03-12-2010 06:33 PM

I have noticed the same thing on my Jet … lane and knotscott are right.

I was concerned about it until I came up with an alignment jig using a dial indicator which showed no runout and near-perfect alignment.

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View Twigger's profile


26 posts in 2429 days

#8 posted 03-13-2010 12:28 AM

Everything’s fine. I have the Jet ProShop saw and it does the same thing. Call Jet technical assistance and they’ll tell you the short version of what alanealane said above.

My relatively new phenolic zero clearance insert still “sings” a bit. But the saw with a Forrest Woodworker II blade cuts great.

So I say it’s all good. :-) Enjoy your new saw.


-- When can we go fishing, err woodworking?!

View gcodom's profile


7 posts in 2117 days

#9 posted 02-10-2011 04:12 AM

I can assure you it is not the motor on the Shop Pro. Mine runs smooth and quiet right from the initial set up and ever since. You can balance a nickel on the table turn on and turn it off and the nickel remains. Not vibration, or noise of any kind. I am thinking this has to do totally with the blade, insert and or setup.

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