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Dust collection - what are my options?

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Forum topic by live4ever posted 03-08-2010 09:38 PM 6796 views 0 times favorited 20 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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live4ever

983 posts in 2475 days


03-08-2010 09:38 PM

Hi everyone!

My first forum post here – looking forward to being a part of this fantastic community. :)

I’ve been in the process of setting up my shop in our garage. We live in an attached San Francisco house. What this basically means is that space is really tight in there. Two cars park there in the evening, our washer/dryer are down there as well, not to mention the ginormous furnace and the water heater.

Despite the space constraints, with some careful planning and the use of mobile bases, I’ve managed to fit in a workbench, a 6” jointer, 14” bandsaw, 13” planer, miter saw on stand, as well as allocated space for a Sawstop on the way.

With space conquered, I have now found myself stumped by another problem. Actually two problems. DUST and NOISE.

You see, the bandsaw is new to me. And the tablesaw isn’t here yet. But I was becoming spoiled by my other tools. The planer, jointer and even many of my other tools (router, jigsaw) were leaving behind mostly chips and shavings…stuff that was easily taken care of with a shopvac. As long as I wasn’t lazy and used the shopvac after doing what I was doing, things stay relatively clean. Enter the bandsaw. It makes a ton of fine dust, very very quickly. This is not a good thing. The tablesaw will probably make 80x the amount of dust. Oh boy.

Since our home is attached on both sides to our neighbors, noise is a big issue. I’d like to be able to tackle the dust issue without generating shopvac sound levels (or greater) for the entire duration I’m using the tool. Sooo, at the end of this novel, my question is – is there such a beast as a reasonably quiet dust collection system? Or am I just dreaming?

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.


20 replies so far

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live4ever

983 posts in 2475 days


#1 posted 03-08-2010 09:42 PM

I should add that I tend to use the loud power tools in short bursts. I completely understand the argument that compared to the sound of the louder power tools, the dust collection system won’t pump out much noise. It just feels like a lot of additional noise relative to how I use my tools, if that makes sense…

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

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SKFrog16

661 posts in 2665 days


#2 posted 03-08-2010 10:03 PM

Start with a good shop vac and some ear plugs. You will always need a shop vac, but it will help you discover your needs for a dust collection unit down the road. Your layout may change and that may affect your dust collection. Down the road, I would not settle for less than 1 1/2hp for the dust collection system you purchase.
Also, get a vacuum that has an exhaust port as well as an intake.

Ear protection is a matter of personal preference, so start out simple. You can always go up. I myself like the noise canceling head set. When the tools aren’t running, I can hear people talk.

-- Methods are many,Principles are few.Methods change often,Principles never do.

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live4ever

983 posts in 2475 days


#3 posted 03-08-2010 10:15 PM

Thanks UnionLabel. I do have the 16gal Ridgid shopvac. It is a loud sucker. But as I mentioned, my problem really isn’t about the noise bothering me, it’s about keeping it down for the neighbors. Attached SF homes are like apartments, basically.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

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PurpLev

8523 posts in 3113 days


#4 posted 03-08-2010 10:25 PM

DC will be significantly quieter than ANY shopvac (festool excluded). it hums like the table saw will. consider also this – you use the DC while you’re using other powertools, so whatever tool that you’re using will be louder than the DC since it also makes the cutting noise. that also means your DC will only be operable while you’re cutting – so same burst operation of the power tool will be for the DC. it’s not origami or kneeting, but it’s better than a shopvac for sure – in all aspects of it – noise, suction, and health.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

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live4ever

983 posts in 2475 days


#5 posted 03-08-2010 10:36 PM

I guess I’ve never been around a DC so I don’t know how loud they are – I sort of incorrectly assumed they’d be as loud as the shopvac. I’m looking at something like the 1HP Grizzly…for around $200…plus one of those Rockler expandable hoses. This is the maximum footprint I can tolerate, I think. I’d prefer to have something wall-mounted, but not sure about the Rockler wall-mounted system (though it does provide more CFM than the Grizz I’m looking at and would take up less space).

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

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LeeG

40 posts in 2486 days


#6 posted 03-08-2010 10:42 PM

Are the walls between insulated? A table saw isn’t much if any louder than a miter saw, and may be quieter. A router is probably the loudest shop tool that will be on for a sustained period. Other than insulation, there isn’t much you can do about sound. Dust collectors are generally quieter than shop vacs.

-- Lee in Phoenix

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live4ever

983 posts in 2475 days


#7 posted 03-08-2010 10:50 PM

Hi Lee,
No, they’re not insulated. That’s something I should look into doing. We’re supposed to keep our garages exposed here, so it’s bare framing and brick walls between the houses and the floor joists straight above. Never done any insulation – but I presume it would be straightforward to just stick insulation in between the studs and leave it exposed?

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

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funchuck

119 posts in 2522 days


#8 posted 03-08-2010 11:18 PM

I think the insulation is made of fiberglass that is not good to breath, so insulation should be covered up… not sure what else you can do about the noise, but I have also been contemplating the dust collection issue. I have a similar setup as you. 2 car garage with 2 cars in it. A 2hp dust collector won’t fit in my garage… my garage is pretty much maxed out on space.

I decided to get a good dust mask. I bought a 3M one with disposable cartridges, I forgot what model it was, but it was recommended on the wood whisperer site, so I bought it. I also use a box fan with a furnace filter on it and I am planning to build a cyclone for my shop vac.

-- Charles from California

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live4ever

983 posts in 2475 days


#9 posted 03-08-2010 11:57 PM

Charles,

Yeah, if I didn’t have the neighbors to worry about I’d go the cyclone route on my shopvac. Fortunately I have this odd closet/jail cell type thing in the garage under the stairs that go up to our front door, which would be perfect for a DC…because it has no other uses, really.

I’ve got the 3M respirator, which I use for finishing. I guess I could try wearing it more often. But that doesn’t help my wife, who’s asthmatic and has to cough the second she walks into the garage…especially I’ve been working at ALL that day.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

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live4ever

983 posts in 2475 days


#10 posted 03-09-2010 12:00 AM

Skarp – wow, that’s a heck of a price. I wish I could just get one of the 1HP ones for that price. The 2HP is a little too big footprint-wise and is probably overkill for me. Hopefully if I wait a bit I’ll come across a good price on the right unit.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8523 posts in 3113 days


#11 posted 03-09-2010 12:11 AM

Another thing to consider is this – a DC is nothing more than a blower+motor+filter+collection bag. if you have limited space, you can always take a DC apart and rearrange the components to fit a custom space – in some cases, even increasing the efficiency of the original DC.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View dbhost's profile

dbhost

5607 posts in 2697 days


#12 posted 03-09-2010 12:23 AM

live4ever,

The HF 2HP DC isn’t but a couple of inches length / width wise larger than floor model 1HP units. Overall height is a bit much, however the OEM bags stink on them anyway and should be replaced with a canister, which has the huge benefit of bringing overall height down.

You could build a stand to store it on and keep something else under it to maximize your space in 3 dimensions…

Some guys get by with 1HP DCs, but the performance of these small units leaves a bit to be desired. There are some that are better designed than others…

The stand outs in this area are…
JDS Dust force 14051 1HP
Delta 50-720

The things that make these models stand out are…

#1. Reasonable CFM rating. Neither of these would win you approval of OSHA or Bill Pentz but they do offer some help at 750 and 650 CFM respectively. #2. 1 micron filtration bags.

Most of the 1 HP models simply don’t move enough air, or filter fine enough to be worth the space they occupy.

Now compare physical sizes of the Delta 50-720 to the Central Machinery 97869 from Harbor Freight.

Delta 50-720 29W x 17” D
Central Machinery 98769 33”W x22”D

A total of 25 square inches additional floor space, for a LOT more air being moved…

Of course you could pop for the Delta 50-760 1.5HP big brother to the 50-720
35”W x 20”D or 6”Wx3”D greater for 18 sq inches more space used.

FWIW, I really like my HF DC, but would have MUCH rather had a Delta 50-760. You can fit it with a Thien lid / baffle equipped separator on its own cart, and give it a Wynn canister filter and have one heck of a great DC in a very little bit of floor space…

On the noise issue. The HF and Delta models are both fairly quiet. MUCH quieter than anything you are likely to be pulling form…

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

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JimmyNate

124 posts in 2815 days


#13 posted 03-09-2010 12:34 AM

I also got the $139 HF 2HP model and it is pretty nice. I’d say it’s quieter than most shop-vacs. If you really want a small footprint and noise is your primary concern, look into a Fein brand shop-vac. They are pricey, but very quiet and designed for wood dust. Adding a trashcan separator to your dust collector (whether you go with a shop-vac or a DC) is definitely a good idea.

-- "We are what we repeatedly do; excellence then is not an act but a habit." ---Aristotle

View Pete_Jud's profile

Pete_Jud

424 posts in 3218 days


#14 posted 03-09-2010 12:45 AM

I have an older jet 1.5 hp DC, and the remote controls from grizzly. It is very quiet, Your next door folks would never hear it. I have 4 inch PVC pipe running around the shop, with drops and blast gates at the tools and 2 floor sweeps. It even keeps up with my 15 inch planner. And I have never had a clog.

-- Life is to short to own an ugly boat.

View Newfounlandwood's profile

Newfounlandwood

63 posts in 2500 days


#15 posted 03-10-2010 04:16 AM

live4ever,

I’m not sure how much you are willing to spend to take care of the noise problem so here is a couple of options:

1. I have had some experience with using eggshell carton material to sound proof a small room, you can use other materials as well, many free or very cheap. We covered all the walls with eggshell carton and old blankets hung over this. I know this is not very practical for a work shop. The best option I have seen for a work shop is sound proofing panels, but these can be expensive. A search for “sound dampening” on google will give you alot of options.

2. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100663624/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
-This is sound dampening foam underlay for walls and floors, I’ve never seen this exact brand but I know people who use similar products for music rooms or recording studios. It works very well, but you would need finnished walls.

3.http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html
-Soundproof drywall. I’ve never seen this before but it looks interesting.I’m sure this product and some insulation would work wonders.

I’ve been researching this as well. My shop is in the basement and no one wants to listen to me working power tools early in the morning or late at night. Hope something here helps you ;)
I plan on using sound dampening panels myself, similar to this:
http://www.acoustiproducts.com/en/acoustipack_dx.asp

Dennis

-- My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them.

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