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Forum topic by mccabegc posted 03-14-2016 12:38 AM 664 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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mccabegc

4 posts in 267 days


03-14-2016 12:38 AM

Good morning everyone,

I’ve been lurking for a bit and finally am close enough to settlement on my house that I can post this question!

In the move I will be going from zero shop space to an almost 3 car garage. Needless to say, I want to put some goodies in that empty space =) I understand that I will not be able to equip the entire space during once shopping spree so i’d like to buy the more essential tools and branch out from there. I was thinking Table Saw, Jointer, Planer as my first big purchases, as well as Dust Collection.

I am trying to gauge everyone’s thoughts on tool selection choices. I hate the idea of buying something knowing that in 3 or 5 years I may want to upgrade to a different tool. I do however understand that I shouldn’t really spend more on a tool than I will actually need.

Table Saw: First thought was the Ridgid R4512 or the Delta comparable model. I have read some reviews and watched many videos. There are many good reviews and many bad reviews. Leaving me with an uneasy feeling about this saw. I was then considering the Grizzly 715p, 1023, and 690. Obviously the 1023 and 690 would suffice as saws that I would most likely never upgrade from.

Jointer: Again considered the Ridgid 6 1/8 setup, but wondered if the 8” Grizzly wouldn’t be a better investment.

Planer: DW735, Grizzly 15” floor model or should i go cheaper? Ridgid or Delta 13” lunchbox for sub 400 bucks?

As you can see, I am all over the map and really need some advice to reel it all in. As for dust collection, I am pretty commited to buying the 2hp HF setup and modifying it with a dust deputy and a HEPA filter instead of the bags.

My plans will start with basic shop stuff and then I plan to start tackling furniture. As of right now the biggest project I see taking on would either be new kitchen cabinets for the house or a complete bedroom set for my wife and I. Either way, I plan to be busy for many years to come!

Thank you in advance

George

PS I am not by any means commited to buying Grizzly tools. They seem to be the next price point up from the big box items. I am not prepared to plump down 3k on a SawStop. I dunno that I’ll ever be there.


15 replies so far

View SuperCubber's profile

SuperCubber

868 posts in 1747 days


#1 posted 03-14-2016 12:48 AM

Hey George,

Welcome to LumberJocks!

Table Saw:
I’m not sure if anyone can say for sure that Ridgid has taken care of the alignment issues that have plagued that saw, but I have the Delta 36-725 and couldn’t be happier without spending a whole lot more. Sure, it doesn’t have cast iron wings, but it is very accurate, great fence, and has been the best tool purchase I’ve made so far.

I don’t have a jointer, so I can’t comment other than saying 90% of the replies coming in will tell you to just get the 8 inch now, because if you get the 6, you’ll be wanting to upgrade almost immediately.

Planer:
The DW735 is widely regarded as the best lunchbox planer, hands down, as long as you get the infeed and outfeed tables with it. I chose the DW734 to save some bucks and I’m very happy with it. I get a very small amount of snipe once in a while, but usually with light passes the board comes out snipe free. Another one to consider is the Ridgid planer, if only because it has the lifetime service agreement.

I think your plan for the Grizzly is a good one.

-- Joe | Spartanburg, SC | "To give anything less than your best is to sacrafice the gift." - Steve Prefontaine

View Crank50's profile

Crank50

173 posts in 1038 days


#2 posted 03-14-2016 01:00 AM

I have a fully equipped shop but if I look at this in the reverse direction, i.e. what could I do with out and what would I add to that list, I’d rather have a good band saw than a joiner.

I have the Craftsman table saw that is identical to the Ridgid R4512. Worst tool purchase I ever made. Can’t UN-recommend it enough. I hate myself for not getting a Grizzly 690 or 1023 series.

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

977 posts in 915 days


#3 posted 03-14-2016 01:10 AM

Wood has three dimensions, X, Y, & Z. X & Y are cut on the TS using the miter gauge and rip fence. Z is the planer. A really good fence will make a crappy saw cut like a precision machine. Put better fences on a good saw and the right fence will up your game.

I have the Grizzly G0715P:

With the Incra LS-III precision rip fence:

And Incra Miter1000 miter gauge:

The right side saw wing was replaced with a router inset table with a 3-1/2 hp Milwaukee router and a digital depth gauge for precise bit & blade depth setting:

I have the Grizzly G0505 planer with a digital thickness readout:

AFAIK this is the lowest cost, highest precision rig you can build. Others may disagree.

My shop is only 80sq ft and I can produce full size cabinets:

And tiny precision boxes using this toolset.

M

-- Madmark - Madmark2150@yahoo.com Wiretreefarm.com

View indianajoe's profile

indianajoe

55 posts in 1445 days


#4 posted 03-14-2016 01:26 AM

I would recommend a planer with a helical cutter head. I have a dw735 and hate to use it due to the price of knives and lack of life of knives always coming to mind. It is a nice planer though.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

5765 posts in 948 days


#5 posted 03-14-2016 01:38 AM

Cabinet saw

8” jointer

Dw735 or floor model

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

3668 posts in 1183 days


#6 posted 03-14-2016 01:45 AM

I would highly recommend buying a good dust collector, not cheap and not super expensive, but something that will protect you. Many have had success with modifying the HF unit into something that performs well, it really depends on whether or not you want to spend time working on the tools to make them into something that will work for you or just get something that’s plug and play (usually for more money). The table saw is not a purchase you should skimp on, buy it right, buy it once, a good saw will last you at least your lifetime. As for jointers, many people have to dump a 6” jointer less than two years old and still like new for 1/4 of what they paid to upgrade to an 8” model, spending the difference in $$ up front will serve you well. The planer is a bit different, again subject to what you plan on doing, the 735 is put together very well and few that own it have had a problem. A stationary model is quieter, will plow off more wood in a single pass and under heavy use will last longer than even the best of the lunchbox models, but it does not by any means guarantee greater accuracy. Have fun equipping your new shop and remember, cheap tools cost more than good ones in the long run.

View mccabegc's profile

mccabegc

4 posts in 267 days


#7 posted 03-14-2016 01:52 AM

Thank you all for the quick replies. I was discussing the table saw topic today with my wife. She was asking questions and the differences etc. I was in the middle of watching Jay Bates review/comparison of his sawstop and the 690. She then proceeds to ask me why I don’t want the saw stop. I explained the almost 3k price tag and her response was….”and?”

I by no means took this as an immediate go ahead to purchase the saw stop. In fact, I am seriously considering the 1023. As much as I like the saw stop, I dunno that I can justify that type of purchase. I know if I did go that route, every other tool would be on hold for quite sometime!

Damn wives, sometimes they do the strangest things that just throw ya off your game!

View 01ntrain's profile

01ntrain

146 posts in 532 days


#8 posted 03-14-2016 03:57 AM



I would recommend a planer with a helical cutter head. I have a dw735 and hate to use it due to the price of knives and lack of life of knives always coming to mind. It is a nice planer though.

- indianajoe

That’s not a great way of thinking, IMO….

In my case I think of my planer as a way of saving money. I can buy all of the rough-sawn wood I want in various species from a local sawyer at a damn good price… he also provides planing and jointing….but at a cost. (I prefer not to bother him with it) Or, I can go to the lumberyard or Big-Box store and buy that pristine S4S board and pay the premium price for it. I choose the former. Flipping the blades, having them sharpened, or replacing them is just the cost of doing business.

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

451 posts in 364 days


#9 posted 03-14-2016 04:56 AM

mad mark, 80 square feet?

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

7210 posts in 2838 days


#10 posted 03-14-2016 11:38 AM

The whole idea is to gain capabilities, and enjoy the experience. A good TS is where I’d splurge….it’s the heart of most shops. If you have 220v and the budget, I’d absolutely look to the G1023RL or G0690 industrial cabinet saws over a 120v hybrid. Either will suffice, but they’re definitely in different leagues. The ABCs of Table Saws

A good 8” jointer has some definite advantages of a good 6” jointer, and a good 15” stationary planer definitely has advantages over a 13” portable planer….the stationary planer should have better longterm reliability than a portable too. The downside is cost. If you can swing it, I’ve never regretted having more power and extra capacity on any tool.

A DC is also an excellent purchase, and the HF 2hp unit seems to be the best bang for the buck.

I’d strongly consider adding a router and a router table to the equation.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1056 posts in 1452 days


#11 posted 03-14-2016 12:28 PM

You have room and $, so add in a bandsaw and lathe. 10” bandsaw can always be used for curves etc. then get a 17” if resawing needs to be part of the plan. Lathes anywhere from $250 for the HF up to $3000 or more.

View WhoMe's profile

WhoMe

1464 posts in 2706 days


#12 posted 03-14-2016 04:17 PM

Joiner – GO THE 8”
Planer – get the 735 at a minimum. You say you do a lot of though sawn lumber, look into a used 15”. Or get carbide tipped knives for the 735. Getting a spiral cutter head for the 735 is getting you into the $$range of the 15” planers.
Table saw – that is a tough one. I own a saw stop, imo, worth every penny. I already had one accident due to a brain fart and buying the saw (after the accident) is the added safety factor of when (not if) another occurs. I was lucky, I kept my fingers. Could have been WAY worse. Hospital bills were almost half of the cost of the saw. Two days after the accident, the wife told me I was getting one.
I can always highly recommend the SS but everyone’s situation is different. But if no SS, then get the most capable cabinet saw you can like the grizzlies with a 3hp motor. You will end up upgrading to a better saw sooner than later with the rigid and delta choices.
And with a big planer and big joiner, a dc with a minimum 700+ cfm with a chip separator is a must. 1000cfm of you plan on the 15” planers.
A router and router table should be next on the list.
Then fill out other tools as needed.

-- I'm not clumsy.. It's just the floor hates me, the tables and chairs are bullies, the wall gets in the way AAANNNDDD table saws BITE my fingers!!!.. - Mike -

View RogR's profile

RogR

53 posts in 327 days


#13 posted 03-15-2016 02:43 AM



The whole idea is to gain capabilities, and enjoy the experience. A good TS is where I d splurge….it s the heart of most shops. If you have 220v and the budget, I d absolutely look to the G1023RL or G0690 industrial cabinet saws over a 120v hybrid. Either will suffice, but they re definitely in different leagues. *The ABCs of Table Saws

A good 8” jointer has some definite advantages of a good 6” jointer, and a good 15” stationary planer definitely has advantages over a 13” portable planer….the stationary planer should have better longterm reliability than a portable too. The downside is cost. If you can swing it, I ve never regretted having more power and extra capacity on any tool.

A DC is also an excellent purchase, and the HF 2hp unit seems to be the best bang for the buck.

- knotscott


This right on the money for me, with the caveat that it depends on what and how much you are going to do.

I suffered on for years as a contractor, with a contractor saw, and when I finally upgraded to a cabinet saw, it was an epiphany.

Likewise going from a benchtop planer to a 15” floor model. Most all the wood I buy needs to be jointed and planed and if its over 4 or 5 feet long the beef of the big planer takes a lot of work out of it and adds a lot of consistent precision.

The Grizzly 2HP DC I bought has worked faultlessly for years and is a godsend – but again, I run a lot of rough material. If I just just making small items (boxes, a cabinet or two) that might be overkill.

By all accounts the Sawstop is a great machine, but the extra loot will add serious machinery to a limited budget.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

754 posts in 1457 days


#14 posted 03-15-2016 03:00 AM

Are you sure you like the hobby? Might not want to jump in with a $3k saw and find out later you don’t. 5 or 7 years in to this hobby and I finally upgraded last week.

I started with a $500 table saw (R4510 portable, which I still like but outgrew) a benchtop jointer (shopfox), the DW735 planer, ridgid router in a benchtop router table, and a 10” bandsaw.

My first upgrade was to a 14” bandsaw. The 10” was just too limited for any kind of resawing or major operations.

My second upgrade was to a floor standing 6” jointer with 54” beds. I started working on projects where I needed the longer beds to control longer pieces. I would have liked an 8”, but just don’t have the footprint.

My third upgrade was last week, which was to go to a 3hp cabinet saw. Have more money in that than everything else combined. But I think its going to be worth it for the power and added stability. I’ll miss being able to fold up my saw and put it away though.

Its always tempting to go top shelf right away, but a lot of guys do great work without expensive tools. You may be better off starting small with quality tools, and learning what you like and don’t. That way when you have some experience you know where and when to upgrade.

-Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View BikerDad's profile

BikerDad

284 posts in 3063 days


#15 posted 03-16-2016 04:55 PM

I haven’t read the other responses, so forgive me if I repeat what someone else has already said.

Depending on timing, I would strongly recommend that you either get a SawStop ($1,400 for the jobsite, up to $2,900 for a 3 hp PCS) or the upcoming (but delayed) Bosch Reaxx. Yes, you certainly can work with any of the saws you mentioned, the insurance of the safety features is like any other insurance. Worthless until you need it, and then (in the case of these saws) invaluable.

Moving past that, if you do decide to go with a safety featured saw, you can help fund it by cutting back on the other items. Get whatever 12”-13” planer you can that’s cheapest. Go used. Skip the jointer and get a used Jack plane. (btw, plan on a block plane also). You’ll find that a 6” jointer can be pretty limiting anyway, whereas there are no width limits with a hand plane.

A different option, one that is “out of the box”, is to skip the tablesaw completely. Since your initial projects look to all be basic cabinet building, you can do pretty much all of it using a decent track saw and miter saw. It’s easy to get “face frame stock” ready to go at any proper hardwoods dealer. Cut to length, rout as necessary, join using pocket screws, cope & stile joinery, routed mortise & tenons, or dominoes. Until one gets into the big honking European style sliders, it is easier to cut sheet goods by bringing the saw to the wood rather than the other way around.

You could build out all of your shop using the following:

DeWalt/Makita/Festool Track Saw & 8’ track (True-Trac, Eureka Zone and DIY jigs are even less expensive options, but much fiddlier)
Bosch 1617EVS Router Combo kit.
Kreg Pocket Hole Jig (Rocket 3 up to K5)
18v Compact Drill/Driver
Block Plane
Random Orbit Sander

Everything on that list is something that will be usable as long as you work wood, unless you go completely Neander. Once you’ve got some experience building your shop cabinets and such, then you’ll know whether or not you want to tackle kitchen cabinets, and whether or not you want to use a tablesaw in doing so…. You can build a a complete set of kitchen cabinets with just the tools above.

-- I'm happier than a tornado in a trailer park! Grace & Peace.

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