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My Brand New [Fifty Some Year Old] Rockwell Delta Lathe

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Forum topic by Kelly posted 03-13-2016 10:39 PM 580 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Kelly

1113 posts in 2408 days


03-13-2016 10:39 PM

Topic tags/keywords: rockwell delta rockwell delta wood lathe lathe 46-450 12 lathe rockwell delta 46-450 turn turning restoration old iron

What a nice couple days. Though I live in the toolies and, generally, find any good craigslist deals far distant, I looked at the list the other day and saw a Rockwell Delta 46-450 wood lathe for one hundred bucks and only a couple miles away.

Though I haven’t found a listing of how much yet, the beast weighs a lot. I’m guessing around four hundred pounds, with the base. As such, general turning operations using out of round wood, at low speeds, shouldn’t produce much vibration. Certainly not as much as my little Jet produces for things relative to its size.

I’d just touched a lathe for the first time a couple months ago, when I bought a little Jet off craigslist [in town about an hour from me]. Now that all my files have nice handles [as well as those of some friends and a neighbor], it’s safe to say the turning bug is alive and well in me. As such, when I saw the heavy iron beast, I had to look at it.

I didn’t attempt a negotiation on the price. The parts were worth far more than that. Especially since it’s the “new version” and the [120/240 VAC] motor ran and everything was there.

I broke the thing down to its stand, bed and head stock, and base so I was able to load and offload the thing myself (it steered at least as easy as a crappy car with a hand truck on the other end].

It had a lot of superficial rust, but, broken down, it’s proving easy to deal with.

I cleaned the shafts for the Reeve drive and that’s working fine. The speed control handle would turn, but wouldn’t lock. Cleaned of rust, it works fine and actually locks easy (and now I know how to adjust it).

A drive center was locked in place on the head stock and the indexing pen was rubbing and wouldn’t back off. A lot of penetrating oil and some taps with plastic hammers and soft drift punches and everything is free and moving again. A little light sanding, with oil, then a buff with McGuire’s Mag polish and things are starting to shine, as well as work smooth.

The upper bearings seem to be doing okay, but I’m tempted to drop the forty for new ones, just because. The lower ones might be talking, so those are going to be a “gotta do it” thing and might as well be done before I toss the bed and head back on.

I’ll probably go with a link belt, so I don’t have to disassemble the head and half of the U.S. to get the old one off and a new one on. I believe it’s going to take a 3/8, but the old one will tell.

I was elated to discover the tapers and threaded chucks for my little Jet can all be used on the 12”/36” Rockwell Delta.

The paint shows signs of age and neglect. Said to heck with it and am going to do like another guy did and go with a lighter color. Picked up a can of white primer and cream white oil. It’ll give the HVLP something to do.

Once it’s up and going, I’ll see if I’m happy with the speeds. Somewhere, an on-line manual or other, it’s indicated adjusting the Reeves drive cable will allow me to drop the speed lower than 340 RPM. We’ll see.


12 replies so far

View woodchuckerNJ's profile

woodchuckerNJ

1154 posts in 1098 days


#1 posted 03-13-2016 11:00 PM

Nice find, and let me give you a big you suck :-).

Good luck with it.

-- Jeff NJ

View Paul's profile

Paul

721 posts in 1029 days


#2 posted 03-13-2016 11:06 PM

I wish 99% of the LJ community could write this well. Great find, happy turnings.

Paul

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4226 posts in 1663 days


#3 posted 03-13-2016 11:38 PM

The upper bearings seem to be doing okay, but I’m tempted to drop the forty for new ones, just because.

If the other bearings are bad, then the spindle bearings are probably not too far behind. Not sure if they will be $40 though… AFAIK, it takes a 3205 and a 6205 – should be less than $10 a piece. Get them from a reputable bearing supplier like Accurate. Best to replace them all while you have things apart, and then you can be sure they are good. Verify what is there though before ordering.

Lots of info on rebuilding that lathe over at OWWM... this thread should get you started: Delta 46-450 Lathe

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View Jimbo4's profile

Jimbo4

1432 posts in 2227 days


#4 posted 03-14-2016 12:51 AM

Like woodchuckerNJ says – you suck! ;o)) Good find!!!.

-- BOVILEXIA: The urge to moo at cows from a moving vehicle.

View Julian's profile

Julian

1037 posts in 2154 days


#5 posted 03-14-2016 01:06 AM

No photos?

-- Julian

View HapHazzard's profile

HapHazzard

92 posts in 332 days


#6 posted 03-14-2016 01:19 AM

Shop around for ABEC 3 bearings if you need replacements. If a bearing doesn’t have an ABEC number it is not a precision bearing. ABEC 3 bearings are usually not that much more expensive, but they are noticeably quieter than non-precision bearings. You can get higher precision, but they start getting a lot more expensive. Also make sure you get bearings with a C3 clearance spec, as this is a high-speed application.

Some other features are more or less worth looking for. For example, the bearings I just put in my Excelsior are ABEC3/C3 6005-2RS GCr15 EMQ. ABEC3 and C3 are the precision and clearance ratings, as mentioned above. 6005 is the size and type of bearing. The 6 means it is a radial-thrust, single-row, ball bearing. The 05 is the inside diameter, divided by 5, so this bearing has a 25 mm ID. The first 0 represents the diameter series. For every inside diameter there’s a series of outside diameters, so this number doesn’t give you the outside diameter directly, but you can look it up. The 2RS just means it has rubber seals on both sides. (Some lathes come with ZZ bearings, which have metal shields on both sides, though I have no idea why.) GCr15 is the name of the chromium steel alloy the bearing is made from, so you can look up the hardness and other properties from that. EMQ means “electric motor quality,” which only means they claim to be good enough to use in motors. This is not an industry standard, and there are no published specifications. Take it with a shaker of salt.

If you do shop around and need any help interpreting bearing specs, give me a shout.

By the way, I paid $23, including shipping, for 10 of these bearings, so at $2.30/ea. precision bearings are pretty affordable. I’ve seen pig-in-a-poke bearings selling for a lot more.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

View Rick M's profile

Rick M

7919 posts in 1844 days


#7 posted 03-14-2016 01:49 AM

Big you suck. There have been half a dozen or so on CL over the last year, all over $450. I was happy to score 46-111 for $100.

re: bearings. When researching bearings for my Craftsman which had an oddball metric/sae bearing size, I read that ZZ bearings are used in lathes because the rubber seals cause a slight amount of drag. Also I would be concerned about using cheap bearings because there is enough work in changing bearings that I wouldn’t want to do it again.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1113 posts in 2408 days


#8 posted 03-14-2016 02:47 AM

Thanks VERY much for the information on the rebuild and bearings guys.

Now that that little beast is apart, I can see a lot of it is self explanatory and pretty straight forward. No doubt, a few tips and trick, such as those provided, will prove invaluable.

The upper bearings said only “MRC 5205.”

Using my precision tape measure (moving back and inch and allowing a quarter inch for wide marks), I came up with these, approximate numbers:

Width 3/4” or .75” or 19mm
OD 2-1/16 or 2.0625” or 50.8mm
ID 1” or 25 mm

All that, aside, I ran the number at VBX and got hits on a lot of “angular” bearings. What manner of animal are they? They ran about nineteen to fifty each. Just a little higher than your two thirty each bearings.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1113 posts in 2408 days


#9 posted 03-14-2016 02:54 AM

Just went to the Accurate web site and tried to wander. It seems no place for laymen. Tried inches and metric and the part number, but got nothing back.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

4226 posts in 1663 days


#10 posted 03-14-2016 03:07 AM

All that, aside, I ran the number at VBX and got hits on a lot of “angular” bearings. What manner of animal are they? They ran about nineteen to fifty each. Just a little higher than your two thirty each bearings.

VXB is generally about twice what you will pay for the same bearings at Accurate. For example, I recently needed some 6205’s for a Baldor motor that I was rebuilding. For Nachi 6205-2NSE bearings, VXB's price is $11.77 a piece. I got the exact same bearings from Accurate a few months ago for $6.41 a piece. Shipping was also cheaper from Accurate… the lowest priced shipping from VXB was $5.55 using their “take your time USA only” option, or $6.67 for their “3-7 shipping days USA only” option. Shipping from Accurate was $4.58 via USPS and I got them in three days. Ordering two bearings from VXB would have cost a total with shipping (take your time option) of $29.09. From Accurate, the total with shipping was $17.40. As always, YMMV.

For the bearing you mentioned, the 5205, that is a double row angular contact bearing with measurements of 52mm O.D., 20.6mm Width (13/16”) and a 25mm bore. It is the same size as a 63205. The OD and bore are the same as a 6205, but the 6205 is a single row bearing and not as wide (15mm). For looking up bearing dimensions at Accurate, click on the “Interchange Part #’s” tab at the top of the page.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Forget trying to measure bearings with a tape measure… precision or otherwise. Get some callipers.

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View HapHazzard's profile

HapHazzard

92 posts in 332 days


#11 posted 03-14-2016 03:46 AM


The upper bearings said only “MRC 5205.”

- Kelly

MRC is Marlin Rockwell Corp., which bought up three older companies: SBC, Gurney, and Strom after WWII. SKF owns them now, but kept the name for this family of bearings. 5 is a double-row, angular contact or spiral roller bearing, 05 means 25 mm ID, 2 means it’s 52 mm OD. Roller bearings always cost more, but they wear longer, so you may not even need to replace them. If the seals are rubber you can pull them out with a dental probe and check the lube. If there’s plenty of grease with no glitter in it, put the seal back on. You’re good to go. If they’re bad you might be looking at at least $25 apiece. I found some for ~$23 on Amazon, but the description said, “premium ABEC-3 and 5 tolerances,” which is nonsense. Either they’re 3 or 5, and no way they’re 5 if they’re $23, so what’s the 5? If they’re C5, that’s too loose.

Anyway, if you need them, shop around, see what you can find. Good clear specs mean a lot more than a familiar brand name. Companies get bought and sold left and right these days, and unless you follow that stuff, you don’t know if whoever bought the brand bought the IP or the manufacturing or just the brand. But ratings and specifications are enforceable.

-- Unix programmers never die; they just > /dev/null

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

1113 posts in 2408 days


#12 posted 03-14-2016 04:36 AM

That’s great news. I had to replace the guide bearings on my Powermatic and they were twenty each through Powermatic, but VBX was about six for eight, plus shipping. A good find, but it sounds like Accurate is far better yet.

Was being facetious about the tape. I used my inch calipers (have to toss the digital things and get something that doesn’t care about batteries ninety miles away).

This is what the VBX site came up with: http://www.vxb.com/SearchResults.asp?searching=Y&sort=2&search=5205&show=15&page=1


All that, aside, I ran the number at VBX and got hits on a lot of “angular” bearings. What manner of animal are they? They ran about nineteen to fifty each. Just a little higher than your two thirty each bearings.

VXB is generally about twice what you will pay for the same bearings at Accurate. For example, I recently needed some 6205’s for a Baldor motor that I was rebuilding. For Nachi 6205-2NSE bearings, VXB s price is $11.77 a piece. I got the exact same bearings from Accurate a few months ago for $6.41 a piece. Shipping was also cheaper from Accurate… the lowest priced shipping from VXB was $5.55 using their “take your time USA only” option, or $6.67 for their “3-7 shipping days USA only” option. Shipping from Accurate was $4.58 via USPS and I got them in three days. Ordering two bearings from VXB would have cost a total with shipping (take your time option) of $29.09. From Accurate, the total with shipping was $17.40. As always, YMMV.

For the bearing you mentioned, the 5205, that is a double row angular contact bearing with measurements of 52mm O.D., 20.6mm Width (13/16”) and a 25mm bore. It is the same size as a 63205. The OD and bore are the same as a 6205, but the 6205 is a single row bearing and not as wide (15mm). For looking up bearing dimensions at Accurate, click on the “Interchange Part # s” tab at the top of the page.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Forget trying to measure bearings with a tape measure… precision or otherwise. Get some callipers.

- MrUnix


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